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Brain Melting Need Guidance for Online Purchase

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03 Feb 2020 06:28 #1 by ChanaJane3
Hello,
I am in need of some guidance in purchasing a mattress completely online. I have read just about the whole website and I am feeling really overwhelmed.

I have to purchase online. I live in Europe and my company will pay ONE time for me to ship some furniture to myself (supplemental HHG). My son will take delivery of the mattress in New York and my company will arrange for it to be shipped to me in the Europe via a third party shipper. I have one chance to get this right. If my choice is bad there is no returning it.

I know you are probably wondering why I do not buy in Europe where I live. King beds are not the same size in Europe, they are smaller. Quality mattresses are insanely expensive here. King mattresses are split in Europe and we strongly dislike this.

I am 5'3 125lbs and my husband is 5'7 200lbs (weight lifter so his upper body is quite dense). He is a strictly side sleeper. I sleep stomach (imagine the Heisman trophy), back and side (mostly side). My husband sleeps so far on the edge of the bed that parts of him periodically hang off.

In 2001 (in our mid 20s) I purchased a Sealy inner spring double pillow top mattress. I negotiated the price and paid $1,500.00. The whole process took an hour, I miss the impulsiveness of my 20s. The mattress was good. It was soft, durable, and no pronounced sagging. We do not have any pain when we wake up. We have experienced sleep pain in firm hotel beds. We are replacing it because the pillow top is very thin now and we want to upgrade to a king.

We know this much:
We want to stick to innerspring.
We do not like memory foam beds at all. Slept on a few and strongly disliked them.
We do not want anything adjustable.
We do not want anything that requires a plug (different voltage here).
Beds in boxes, pure latex and air make us nervous (it is new to us and since we can't try it out..).
We want a VERY soft bed.
The edges of the bed need to be very well reinforced.
We are not super hot sleepers but we do not want anything that really retains heat.
I like the idea of coil on coil but I am not set on it.
I like the idea of natural materials, my husband does not care about this at all.

Initially I thought "Sealy was good, I will buy a Sealy". I calculated for inflation and set a median budget of $2,500.00. Then I thought let me read some reviews. I have since read/ watched hundreds of reviews, joined Consumer Reports, logged about a 100 hours online. I find myself only more confused the further I go.

Beds I have seriously considered (in no particular order)

Brentwood Home Oceana
Reservations: It is a bed in a box. The layer above the coils seem too thin for our BMI. I am concerned it will not be soft enough.

Saatva Classic Mattress Plush Soft
Reservations: Concerns about the durability of the foam encasement. The layer above the coil seem too thin for our BMI. I am concerned it will not be soft enough.

Charles P Roger Estate 9000 Luxury Plush or Lifetime 5
Reservations: Getting questions answered is like pulling teeth. I still do not know how the sides of the bed are reinforced. When I ask the sales team I am met with "they are very strong". Because dealing with their sales team has been difficult I am a little scared of the company. The price tag is much higher. Currently cannot justify that amount of money when I do not know exactly what I am paying for.

Sealy Response Premium Pillow Top Plush
Reservations: Am I paying for the name? Is it even quality? Will all that foam on top of the coils last? Will it make me hot?

Ethan Allen EA Signature Platinum Plus
Reservations: Why is it more expensive than the Sealy. Again am I paying for a name? Will all that foam on top of the coils last? Will it make me hot?

My questions are:
Do you have any suggestions for specific beds? Please feel free to private message me and I will happily look into them?

Do you see any part of my logic that is flawed? If so please share your thoughts.

I welcome any and all help. My husband has tapped out, the pages of notes has scared him off. I am on my own now:)

Thank you to anyone who read through this novel and to the creators/moderators of the site.

Many Regards,
Chana

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03 Feb 2020 09:48 - 03 Feb 2020 13:52 #2 by MattressToGo
Hey Chana:

I'll do my best to assist with some of your questions, but your post is more about picking a brand or product and not best meant for me. But hopefully I can provide a bit of color for you.

I have one chance to get this right. If my choice is bad there is no returning it.


I don't recommend purchasing something without trying it when you're putting all of your eggs in one basket like this. You really need to try something out first, especially with the very specific requirements that you list in your post.

I know you are probably wondering why I do not buy in Europe where I live. King beds are not the same size in Europe, they are smaller. Quality mattresses are insanely expensive here. King mattresses are split in Europe and we strongly dislike this.


There are mattresses close to the size of the North American king size in Europe, and they are not necessarily split. But it does depend upon the country in which you are currently located and what may be available to you. And you certainly may pay more for a quality product in Europe, but you'll also have a wider array of specialty foams and more innovative material arrangements, especially with higher-density polyurethane foams. But again, this all depends upon where you live.

We know this much:
We want to stick to innerspring.


That opens you up to a very large percentage of what is produced, but each style of spring (fabric encased, LFK, knotted offset...) will have its own personality and contribute differently to the overall comfort and support. As you want a VERY SOFT mattress, perhaps something that is more point elastic, such as a higher quality fabric encased spring unit, would be worth investigating.

We do not like memory foam beds at all. Slept on a few and strongly disliked them.


Then I would avoid anything using visco-elastic foams in the uppermost comfort layers. Memory foam beds are made in many different configurations, so not knowing exactly what you tested and didn't like, I wouldn't be able to direct you toward or away from any specific configuration. There are some newer high density polyfoams that mimic the feel of visco foam but don't have as much of the viscous nature that visco foams have but are still soft, and these would be quite soft products, but based upon your request to not have anything using memory foam (or feeling like it I would guess), you may or may not like this foam. Only testing in person would tell.

We do not want anything adjustable.
We do not want anything that requires a plug (different voltage here).


This would only pertain to the power foundation under the mattress, so nothing to worry about as far as selecting your mattress. It's a totally separate animal.

Beds in boxes, pure latex and air make us nervous (it is new to us and since we can't try it out..).


Beds in boxes are not a TYPE of mattress, but a METHOD OF DELIVERY. I wouldn't use it to classify mattresses. MAny different types of mattresses are able to be compressed as boxed-bed products. Latex is one of the most durable and point elastic comfort materials out there, and when combined with a quality fabric-encased innerspring unit, it can provide a supportive and soft comfort. But since you are afraid to order it because you've never tried it and want to order something without testing it out, I guess it is off of your list of items to consider. But it would be something I think could suit your needs if you were able to test some items out. Airbeds don't have innersprings, so those are off of your list as well, and probably not what you're looking for regardless.

We want a VERY soft bed.


All of the layers of a mattress work together to achieve your overall feel, and to get a durable plush comfort you need to make sure the comfort materials are resilient and of a high quality and work well with the support unit, but not so soft that you create too deep of a comfort cradle that negatively impacts your alignment. Again, this is all quite personal, as your definition of VERY SOFT is specific to you.

The edges of the bed need to be very well reinforced.


Firm, higher-density foam rails can provide a hard edge system, as can v-spring clips between border rods. DIfferent innerspring units will use different edge systems. Realize that an edge reinforcement system isn't meant to feel like a chair - it's there to help prevent roll-off and extend the usable sleep surface. It doesn't have to feel excessively hard to do the job. We're seeing more fabric encased units using springs of various geometry around the perimeter of the innerspring unit to provide edge reinforcement, replacing foam rails.

We are not super hot sleepers but we do not want anything that really retains heat.


All foams insulate to an extent. Softer mattresses insulate more (regardless of materials) and expose less to heat exchange. More dense materials will flow less air than lower density materials. In general, latex tends to be the most breathable uncompressed, followed by polyfoam and then visco-elastic foam. The items closest to your skin (mattress pad and sheets) will have the most dramatic impact upon your sleeping temperature and humidity regulation.

I like the idea of coil on coil but I am not set on it.


Nanocoils or microcoils can be durable and breathable as comfort layers. There's nothing wrong with using them in that respect, but again you'd want to test out a product using them as they do offer a bit of a different feel.

I like the idea of natural materials, my husband does not care about this at all.


If you desire materials that are able to pass more stringent "safety certifications", then you could look at cotton, wool, silk, coir, kapok, horsehair and latex. The natural fibers will tend to compress over time and feel a bit harder. Latex can be had in all levels of plushness.

Initially I thought "Sealy was good, I will buy a Sealy". I calculated for inflation and set a median budget of $2,500.00. Then I thought let me read some reviews. I have since read/ watched hundreds of reviews, joined Consumer Reports, logged about a 100 hours online. I find myself only more confused the further I go.


I recommend to base your opinion on the componentry contained within a product and not on your level of familiarity with the brand name. Reviews are the least reliable way to pick a mattress, as they are generated in the short term by people generally unqualified to provide an educated analysis of the componentry within a mattress. Don't waste your time. Consumer Reports really does a disservice to the public with their mattress issue, something which I've previously discussed in detail. I wouldn't recommend it.

Beds I have seriously considered (in no particular order)

Brentwood Home Oceana
Reservations: It is a bed in a box. The layer above the coils seem too thin for our BMI. I am concerned it will not be soft enough.

Saatva Classic Mattress Plush Soft
Reservations: Concerns about the durability of the foam encasement. The layer above the coil seem too thin for our BMI. I am concerned it will not be soft enough.


Without testing out the mattresses in person, you wouldn't be able to determine if they met your VERY SOFT requirement. Unfortunately I can't relate that to you as well (I wish I could!). And I'm not aware of any sort of a BMI / upper upholstery thickness scale. Remember that all of the layers of a mattress work in unison to create overall comfort.

Charles P Roger Estate 9000 Luxury Plush or Lifetime 5
Reservations: Getting questions answered is like pulling teeth. I still do not know how the sides of the bed are reinforced. When I ask the sales team I am met with "they are very strong". Because dealing with their sales team has been difficult I am a little scared of the company. The price tag is much higher. Currently cannot justify that amount of money when I do not know exactly what I am paying for.


If a company is not responsive and if you can't get information at least about the density of the foams being used (the best way to judge durability), then I'd be hesitant about making a purchase.

Sealy Response Premium Pillow Top Plush
Reservations: Am I paying for the name? Is it even quality? Will all that foam on top of the coils last? Will it make me hot?

Foam density not anything I'd recommend.

Ethan Allen EA Signature Platinum Plus
Reservations: Why is it more expensive than the Sealy. Again am I paying for a name? Will all that foam on top of the coils last? Will it make me hot?

You'd need to learn of the density of the foam materials before being able to make an educated decision.

My questions are:
Do you have any suggestions for specific beds? Please feel free to private message me and I will happily look into them?


I generally don't PM people on the site. I try to provide information that everyone can share, nor do I recommend specific brands. The information I provide is similar to the guidelines set forth on this site - learn about componentry and what is quality to help find a product that should provide a durable comfort life. The softness or hardness of the item is subjective and of course specific and personal. With the very specific requirements you listed, I think something using a good fabric encased spring unit with a quality edge reinforcement system, topped with some good latex or softer higher-density polyfoam could be an option, but you stated you were afraid to try latex, so that takes this off of the table. Also, some of the newer softer higher-density polyfoams can feel a bit like visco-elastic (memory) foam, so that may be off of your list as well. Without you trying things out, I really couldn't begin to make an educated suggestion for you.

Do you see any part of my logic that is flawed? If so please share your thoughts.


Yup. You need to try something out in person and re-read the mattress buying tutorial on this site, specifically the section outlining the quality of materials and what to find out in any mattress you're considering. King or grande king sizes may differ from N.A. king sizes, but not by too much. And they're not all split into two pieces. I would work a little harder to find something you can sample closer to where you live in Europe. You may pay a bit more, but your sleep and restoration are worth it. You trying to determine what something feels like by reading online for a few weeks and clicking and ordering when you have quite specific needs is a recipe for probable disappointment. I've been doing this for almost 30 years and it's still difficult for me to know how a product feels when only reading about its specs. I wouldn't expect you to be able to so unless you were an experienced mattress designer (and even these people are often surprised at how their creations feel).

Overall, I know my advice is not what you want to hear. If I were in your shoes, I'd find something to test out in person and make sure that what I found used better quality materials.

Maybe others can chime in with some thoughts for you as well.

Good luck!

Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members
Last edit: 03 Feb 2020 13:52 by MattressToGo.

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03 Feb 2020 16:30 - 03 Feb 2020 17:22 #3 by Sensei
Hey Chana,

Welcome to the Mattress Underground Forum :) . Thanks for your question and good to have you here.

I am in need of some guidance in purchasing a mattress online. I have read just about the whole website and I am feeling really overwhelmed. I live in Europe and my company will pay ONE time for me to ship some furniture to myself (supplemental HHG). My son will take delivery of the mattress in New York and my company will arrange for it to be shipped to me in the Europe via a third party shipper. I have one chance to get this right. If my choice is bad there is no returning it.


Before we get started, I am including a response quote from @JeffScheuer of Mattress To Go's earlier response to your post: "I don't recommend purchasing something without trying it when you're putting all of your eggs in one basket like this. You really need to try something out first, especially with the very specific requirements that you list in your post." You can read more on the importance of personally testing mattresses in "Five steps to your perfect mattress- Overview" , explaining the need for store visits to better understand the "feel" of different mattresses while making comparisons.

I know you are probably wondering why I do not buy in Europe where I live. King beds are not the same size in Europe, they are smaller. Quality mattresses are insanely expensive here. King mattresses are split in Europe and we strongly dislike this.


Congrats on your mattress shopping journey :cheer: ! While it is challenging to shop online, our expert trusted members have great experience in guiding consumers through the decision making process and can address the questions and concerns you may have.

Based on the response you had earlier with @MattressToGo, I reached out to several trusted members, Luma Sleep specializing in latex hybrid mattresses took the call to respond. You may visit their website, LumaSleep.com and ask questions directly via chat (hours are 9am-7pm EST). Also, giving thanks to TMU expert trusted member MattressToGo , appreciate your prompt response and advice of Chana's questions.

I'll move your question to Luma Sleep's forum where an @TeamLuma representative will respond upon hearing more from you. Looking forward to hearing more updates from you in the future.

Cheers,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum
Last edit: 03 Feb 2020 17:22 by Sensei. Reason: edited URL

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Moderators: Luma Sleep

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