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16 Oct 2018 06:00
Replied by rvsarch on topic Mattress Modifications

Mattress Modifications

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Bringing this back to the original thread, I would say that the biggest problem with selecting a mattress is the inability to really get to know a particular solution without several months of living with it and then further, not having any idea of the longevity of the materials involved. When we switched from a conventional coil mattress to the Tempur-Pedic, we were thrilled. It was a world of difference and we slept better. Then when the Poly base layer failed just a few years later, not so thrilled as there was no noticeable sag and no valid warranty claim under their terms. Replacing that base layer with firm latex, brought our sleep experience to a new height. As the original memory foam comfort layer slowly deteriorated, our sleep began to suffer. Since we had no experience with a latex comfort layer, replacing the memory foam with a similarly dense foam brought us back to great sleep. Then a rapid deterioration of the new memory foam, just one year instead of the twelve it took for the Tempur foam to fail, brought us back down to a poor sleep experience. Replacing the comfort layer with latex, proved different from the memory foam, but turned out to be an excellent solution. Seems like latex has the very real benefit of durability. To my mind, this quality is paramount, since it is so difficult to detect the slow deterioration of a mattress over a period of months or even years.
15 Jul 2018 01:37
Replied by Phoenix on topic Retailers - Department stores

Retailers - Department stores

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi thanhhiep.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

I just noticed your earlier posts with the two photo attachments in a different topic. I apologize! :( these were somehow lost because of the discussions in progress with other contributor members. I moved them to this thread and deleted any duplications.

We like the firmness and support of the mattress but we are not sure if the mattress has the right latex/foam components for long-term durability and comfort.


You are quite right that outside of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) ... the most important part of a mattress purchase is the quality and durability of the materials inside it but unfortunately the pictures you attached don't provide all the information about the quality of the materials in the mattress so it's really not possible to make any meaningful comments about it, identify any weak links in the design, or make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses.

You can see my overall thoughts about Paramount in post #9 here but I would also read posts #5 and #6 here which indicates that they are not transparent about some of the materials they use in their mattresses (in this case the density and thickness of the foams).

The gel that is added to some types of latex or memory foam is a phase change gel that can absorb and release heat within a certain temperature range to help regulate temperature. So-called "soy-based foam" is just polyfoam that has replaced a small percentage of one of the two main chemicals used to make the polyfoam (the polyol) with a polyol that is derived from soy oil (see post #2 here ). It would be closely comparable in terms of durability to other types of polyfoam that are the same density range. I would want to know the density of any polyfoam in a mattress.

All the latex you are likely to encounter is a good and durable material. The addition of copper used as a filler (such as TGs “Talalay mineral”) is generally used to improve the processability and heat transfer (due to the increased surface area) of the PCM. The benefits of Cu used as a filler in both memory foam and latex are more connected with its thermo-conductive properties and even though copper infused latex is advertised as having side “health benefits” (such as copper bracelets) to my knowledge these benefits have not been proven in copper infused foams. The main benefit for adding Cu to latex or memory foams would be for thermal conductivity (which generally is not an issue with latex, to begin with) so I personally would not make a priority to choose one over the other (with or without copper). Other than this if you can provide the information listed here I'd certainly be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials in the mattress and let you know if I can see any obvious weak links in the design.

We are not sure how thick or how much density are these latex or foam and the sale person does not know either. The July4th sale is $2,847 + tax. Is this the right mattress for us with the listed specs and price?


I would ask Macy's to find out the information for you because they may have better results than you since other forum members haven't been successful in finding out the information they needed directly from Paramount (see post #2 here and the posts it links to about Paramount) and if you aren't able to find out the information you need to make an informed choice I would be hesitant to make the purchase no matter how appealing the sales price might be.

Sales are more about the illusion of saving money than they are about reality .. While it's not possible to make a blanket statement about sales because each retailer or manufacturer can be different, I would treat retailers or manufacturers that negotiate their prices or have "major holiday sales" with huge discounts as a red flag as a most of the sales are more about creating a false sense of urgency. The better manufacturers and retailers that sell good quality/value mattresses don't generally "negotiate" and they sell good quality/value mattresses every day of the year at prices that are already very reasonable. (see post #6 here ) or have "fake sales" based on the time of year or holidays (see the guidelines here and post #5 here ). In other words ... if you are dealing with a better retailer or manufacturer that sells better quality/value mattresses then one time of the year isn't really any better than another.

Just in case you haven't read it already ... post #1 here and the tutorial post here  that have all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices.

Hopefully, this gives you enough information to help with your research.
I would be interested to hear back from you to learn what you decided and I or any other Expert Member of the site would be glad assist you with any questions that you may have.

Phoenix
14 Jul 2018 08:28
Replied by thanhhiep on topic Retailers - Department stores

Retailers - Department stores

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Yesterday, I came across your website while Googled for mattress info. I love this site! My husband and I are looking to purchase the King size 12" Nature's Spa 1980 Celestial by Paramount @ Macy's. My husband (height 5'7" 162 lb BMI ~25) has back & hip pains and I (5'1" 115 lb BMI ~ 22) have shoulder bursitis. We like the firmness and support of the mattress but we are not sure if the mattress has the right latex/foam components for long term durability and comfort. The sale person said the mattress has Talalay Latex at least 1-2". It has the 5" coil-free, soy-based core that is CentriPUR-US Certified, Natural Latex, Macy's Exclusive Healing Copper Infused Latex, High Density comfort and support foams, Natural cashmere surface, and Thermal gel treated BCI stretch knit cotton fabric provides a cooler sleeping surface. I don't know how to attached an image here so I am listing out the specifications:
Warranty: 10 years,
Foundation: 10 Slat Amish Built foundation,
Coil Support: High Density Support Base Foam,
LO PRO Height: 5",
Box Height: 9",
Mattress Height: 12",
Comfort Layers: Foam Core, HD Comfort Topper, HD Comfort Topper (yes they list out twice), Macy's Exclusive Blended Copper Infused Latex,
Quilt: Comfort Quilting Foam, Comfort Quilting Foam, Comfort Quilting Foam, Macy's Exclusive Cashmere & Wool Blend,
Cover: BCI Stretch Cotton,
Comfort Level: Extra Firm.
We are not sure how thick or how much density are these latex or foam and the sale person does not know either. The July4th sale is $2,847 + tax. Is this the right mattress for us with the listed specs and price?
14 Feb 2018 15:00
Replied by Soappreciative on topic Forum Help

Forum Help

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Guess I'll join the crowd: nowhere on my computer screen to start a new post either!

I'm looking at a mattress at Sleepworld in Asheville. Amanda sent me this info:

"The Hillbrook Eurotop is a 15" thick mattress that features an Individually Pocketed Coil Innerspring unit and is made by Paramount Sleep. The upholstery layers above the coils contain Natural Cotton, Natural Wool, Natural Latex in varying thicknesses and firmnesses. It is hand tufted with an Organic Cotton stretch knit cover and Wool Rosettes."

Then Jeff sent me this (it was in chart form but I'm not able to cut and paste):

Panel fabric:
All over organic cotton stretch knit

Tufting:
Hand Tufted with Wool Rosettes

Product architecture + coils:
Quilt -
Natural FR Rayon Fiber
Luxurious Cashmere Comfort Layer
Super Soft Convoluted Foam 1.3/15
Super Soft Convoluted Foam 1.3/15 [this is NOT a typo; it's exactly what's on the chart)
Quilted Zoned Latex Lumbar

Euro top -
Block of 1.5" Natural Latex
MicroCoil Comfort Layer

Upholstery -
Densified Fiber Pad
Natural Cotton Comfort Pad

Foam encasement -
HD Densified Fiber Pad

Base:
HD Densified Fiber Pad

I have read and read and read the info on this website and still feel overwhelmed! It sooo informative that I'm having trouble condensing it down and applying it to this actual mattress. It doesn't appear to me from what I've read that this info is adequate for me to determine whether there is a "weak link" layer, but I'm not sure. I'd VERY much appreciate any assistance!

Thanks so much.
11 Feb 2018 00:10
Looking to create a DIY Latex Hybrid, or maybe buy something similiar was created by Imaya

Looking to create a DIY Latex Hybrid, or maybe buy something similiar

Category: Latex Mattress Factory / LATEX, DIY, MATTRESSES FOR HIGHER WEIGHT RANGES, & TOPPERS

I have been researching mattresses ENDLESSLY for weeks now. So much so, I am teaching the mattress salespeople things. I am sick of looking, I need to decide.

Me: Heavy sleeper; 5'4, 260ish lbs, female. I have hips, which seem to cause the most trouble keeping my back in a good position when on my back. I am not sure if too soft or too firm is the issue, but it is the major comfort one. I sleep with a ton of pillows to stuff under my shoulders and head, and behind my back when on my side. That and some toppers are the only way I have gotten through this. I sleep in all positions, but usually end up on my side curled up or on my stomach due to crappy mattresses my whole life. If I pass out on my back for too long, I wake up very sore through my shoulders and lower back. Like I just did many rounds with a boxer. Sleep is not always restful, I commonly wake up after a full night's sleep feeling like I got far less than that. I am sick of this! Need a real mattress.

I flopped around on stuff all day today. I did find a place that specializes in Latex mattresses. They carried the Savvy, the one with the 3 layers of 3" natural latex, and some other brands that were basically the same thing but with a different combo of Talay/ Dunlop layers. No matter the combo, I found the firm to feel rock hard, the soft too soft (I think one of them was ok), and medium the closest to right. However, none felt like they supported my lower back enough. They all felt like a freaking brick, the 'softness' was just a brick I fell further into... I guess I am too used to coils! Anyways, all of them felt like the curve of my lower back was floating above, and I was left wanting an aggressive push back on it. They had a single latex hybrid to try, it was the Maxx www.maxxmattress.com/ I can't seem to find any info on the specs, but the one I tried I was told by the salesperson was a hybrid coil and Dunlop Latex. It only came in medium. It was a noticeable improvement in the pushback compared to pure latex, but was not as good as some of the very high end foam hybrids.

I think at this point I should explain why not foam. Simple-- I am NOT a memory foam/ foam person. I hatehatehate the suck. I hate having to launch myself across the bed to get out of the pit. I hate sleeping IN a mattress. And, most of all, I love bounce in my bed. The first latex hybrid I found was a cheap Ashley Furniture house brand one. I was told it was a Talay on coils, no more info is available. I was in love with this setup and knew I was on the right track. (and, yes, the comfort level was comparable to the Maxx. There was definitely foam in it too, because the support layer had way more give and I felt the coils far more. It was easily the bounciest one I tried-- which I loved-- but was most likely due to engaging the coils much easier through the cheap foam. I know it would be destroyed in 2 years from my weight.)

The mattresses that DID have the pushback I liked were unfortunately no help-- A Kingsdown hybrid was closest to perfect (2 in firmness, scale is 1-5 with 1 being firmest), and all my research has failed me to find more info on it's specs. I know it was zoned, which I am sure is a big reason for it feeling right. The second place was a Nature's Spa by Paramount (medium, NON pillowtop version). Same story. I really wish these big boxes were more transparent so I could have the confidence to buy them, or at least deconstruct them to find out what I liked in them! Keetsa Tea Leaf Classic at the Latex store felt decent too, but only marginally better than the Latex Maxx. Firmness was spot on, and it did provide some more push into my lower back. Just concerned about foam options breaking down too fast with my weight, and of course, it didn't have that bounce I adore (but more than memory foam at least)

Anyways, after weeks of going through what seems like every bed in a box and online mattress maker review out there, (including all the help articles here!) I feel like I have narrowed down what I *might* like and would like feedback.

Option 1: DIY. Base: Coils. Support layer: 2" Dunlop medium. Comfort layer: 2" Talay blended medium. And a cover. All from Mattresses.net.

Option 2: Luma Hybrid. They basically do that setup, but with a different thickness layering of the latex. I have a feeling they might know something I don't, and that is why they have the 1.5" layer on the coils, and 3" on top instead of half and half. Thoughts?

Option 3: ?? I am open to suggestions of something I might have missed, a different DIY config, or a different mattress I add a topper to.

I would appreciate any insight to help me with the final push to my new mattress!
11 Dec 2017 10:20
Replied by Phoenix on topic Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi nanchit,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

My husband and I tried a Paramount mattress, which is a latex, hybrid. We were both on it briefly and liked it. Any comments or suggestions in regard to this mattress?


I’m glad you’ve found a mattress that feels comfortable to you, but you can’t feel quality or durability when testing out a mattress in a showroom. That can only be determined by the componentry used within the mattress, and unfortunately you haven’t provided any detail regarding this.

When researching a new mattress, the specifications you need to know are listed in this article . If you are able to find out that information about the particular model you tested, feel free to post it back here and I’ll be happy to provide further comments for you. There’s more detailed information about choosing a mattress in the mattress shopping tutorial here .

You can read a little more about Paramount Sleep in post #2 here and the posts it links to. Unfortunately Paramount Sleep doesn't normally disclose all the information you would need to know to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in their mattresses, but hopefully with the model you’re considering they’ll be a bit more transparent with the latex used within the product. A forum search on Paramount (you can just click this) will also bring up more general information and feedback about them.

Phoenix
11 Dec 2017 07:59
Replied by nanchit on topic Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Category: General Mattresses Questions

My husband and I tried a Paramount mattress, which is a latex, hybrid. We were both on it briefly and liked it. Any comments or suggestions in regard to this mattress?
22 Sep 2017 12:49 - 24 Oct 2018 09:14
Replied by Phoenix on topic Dunlopillo quality

Dunlopillo quality

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi kmanix,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

Can anyone report on Dunlopillo mattresses by Sherwood. Specifically the ambiance. It is being offered by a chain store, Mattress Firm, in my area, $3200 for a King. I'm finding it difficult to locate reviews or price comparisons.


Steinhoff International purchased Mattress Firm in 2016, and in 2017 announced that they had purchased a majority stake in Sherwood Bedding , so that is the reason for seeing the Sherwood Bedding products filtering into the Mattress Firm stores. Unfortunately, Sherwood doesn’t provide any meaningful details about this mattress on their web site, and Mattress Firm is also not known for providing meaningful details about the products they offer.

You can see the individual layers of the Sherwood Dunlopillo Ambience here (assuming Steinhoff or Mattress Firm hasn’t changed the layers of the product) but they don't mention the thickness of each layer or the density of the polyfoam layers so I would make sure that you find this out (especially with the upper layers of the mattress) so that you can identify any weak links in the mattress.

Sherwood or Mattress Firm should be able to provide you with the information you need (see this article ) and if you can post it on the forum I'd be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials inside the mattress for you.

You can read a few general comments about Sherwood Bedding in post #2 here and post #2 here . They are certainly a legitimate company but as you can see in post #5 here they aren't always completely transparent about the materials they use in their mattresses. Some of their mattresses use good quality materials that would be worth considering and some use lower quality/density materials which I would avoid, so it will really depend on the specifics of the mattress you are considering (and your ability to find out the specifics of the materials and components inside it).

Regarding reviews, while other people's comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful ... I would also keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about about using other people's experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful. A mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words ... reviews in general won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ).

When selecting a mattress, hopefully you've already read the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

There is also more about the 3 most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

When selecting a mattress you can’t feel quality or durability, so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

If for any reason a retailer or a manufacturer is either unwilling or unable to provide you with the information that you need (about the thickness and density of any polyfoam or memory foam layers in a mattress in particular) to assess the quality and durability of the materials and components in a mattress I would avoid it completely. It would be reasonable and "safer" to assume that any "unknown" materials in a mattress are lower quality/density range than the guidelines (otherwise they would probably disclose it) and without this information it's just not possible to make any meaningful comments about the durability or useful life of a mattress and you would be making a very risky purchase.

Regarding Dunlopillo, they were a manufacturer of Talalay latex and when they went bankrupt the brand name "Dunlopillo" still had "value" because of their long history and the name was purchased by a number of different companies around the world and its ownership became very fractured. Most of the equipment from the factory and the rights for the Dunlopillo name in North America (and some other countries as well) were purchased by what is now Talalay Global ( post #2 here and the posts or articles it links to has more about the ownership of the Dunlopillo brand name in different areas of the world).

In the case of Dunlopillo branded mattresses that are in the countries that are owned by Talalay Global ... the latex in the Dunlopillo branded mattresses would be Talalay latex made by Talalay Global. The Ambiance charts shows it to have one layer of Talalay latex, with the rest being polyfoam.

The first mattress manufacturer to license the Dunlopillo brand name for North America was Paramount mattresses in 2010
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: enhancedonlinenews.com/portal/site/eon/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100805006371&newsLang=en&permalinkExtra=
but this was only a license to use the name. Sherwood purchased the license to use the name in North America in 2014.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: sherwoodbedding.com/2014/05/sherwood-bedding-secures-dunlopillo-licensing-in-
north-america/



Phoenix
23 Aug 2017 13:31
Replied by Phoenix on topic Back to the drawing board (multiple mattresses - trying to narrow down)

Back to the drawing board (multiple mattresses - trying to narrow down)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi sretodd,

I certainly can understand your frustration, and as you mentioned I can’t pick out a mattress for you, but I will do my best to comment upon your feedback and hopefully that can help provide some “fine-tuning” for you.

A bit about the mattresses I've tried (So far my budget has been $1k):
1) Loom & Leaf luxury firm - my first ever memory foam mattresses. Felt way too firm for me and didn't enjoy the fact that there was absolutely no bounce. Basically felt like a rock when I laid down on it.


Memory foam will have low resilience (not much “bounce’ or “push back”) and high hysteresis (“energy absorbing”). And especially when at room temperature, depending upon your bed room environment, it can feel quite firm. As you don’t enjoy these features, I would avoid a traditional memory foam style product as you move forward.

2) Brooklyn Bedding BME (old version) soft - way too soft for me. Loved the bounce and the cushioning but found myself with very bad lower back pain. Made me think latex was for me though, but found myself lulled into the idea that a bed in a box wasn't.


Could be that in the “soft” configuration the upper comfort layers allowed you too much sink and the transition to the polyfoam core wasn’t substantial enough for your preference, allowing for too much sink of your low back.

3) S-brand spring/memory foam hybrid from a mattress store - worst bed ever. Worst of both worlds - too soft on top and too firm in the middle. Had hip, back and shoulder pain.


While unfortunate, this one isn’t a surprise, given the lower density foams that many of the major brands tend to offer (if you were even able to find out the actual foams used in the mattress you chose), and the fact that it used memory foam, which you stated is not to your preference.

4) SleepOnLatex soft - closest to a mattress I could love in terms of back support but had pressure points in my shoulders and a bit in my hips. Kept this one for a full 90 days hoping that it would soften up but it didn't unfortunately. I considered adding a topper to this, but at $999 it would have put me over my budget.


From our previous conversation I believe this was the 9” version of the Sleep On Latex mattress in the soft version, and based on your comments at that time I believe a topper was next on the list, which more than likely would have been a positive step based upon your comments then and here, as you had found an item with quality back support (which is paramount) and then needed just a bit of extra surface comfort.

5) Flexus quadra-flex zoned innerspring/latex hybrid in soft - I was really hoping this would be "the one" but I hate it. The top latex layer (3" 20ILD talalay) is super comfy but it feels like there is zero support from the innerspring. I basically fall through the mattress and have had extreme lower back pain every morning.


The innerspring unit in this mattress tends to be quite supportive, and without being present my best guess would be that with the soft latex on top you are going through that and then feeling the contouring of the pocketed spring unit, and in this situation you may benefit from an extra “transition layer” of slightly firmer material to assist with that, but in this mattress this is not an option.

As for overall guidance, your personal experiences are paramount, and I would go back to what “almost” worked. Which would be a design similar to the Sleep on Latex that you liked the best. A firm Dunlop support core, with a transition layer of 2”-3”, and then a bit of a softer layer on top of 2”-3” that is plush might be a good option, based upon your feedback. With more of your weight in your hip area, it’s important to allow for enough “sinking-in” in that area, but as you are slight in the shoulders you still need a bit of extra surface plushness. It doesn’t seem as you’re able to accomplish this with just one 2” layer on top of your support core, hence the thought that perhaps two layers on top of your support core (but not too soft combined), could provide the necessary comfort cradle for your preference ( see here ).

Based upon your feedback, those are the best logical thoughts I can come up with. I'm hoping this is helpful to you.

Phoenix
21 Aug 2017 21:36
Replied by Phoenix on topic Your Advice Is Needed

Your Advice Is Needed

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi NotSleepingWell,

Thanks for your concern and kind words, as well as your quick reply.


You’re very welcome!

Although my compression fractured and disc problem are in my lower back I am getting a stiff mid-upper back with the muscle often time tightening to the point that I can barely move and even use my arms to reach for or carry things. So I'm not sure whether I should focus on going firmer under the lumbar and softer at the pelvis and shoulders or the reverse. My initial thought was the reverse (the first zoning type), firmer layer in the middle under the lumbar and pelvis and 2 softer zones above and below this.


You’d definitely want to sure that any configuration you investigated had adequate deep support in the middle zone, as alignment would be paramount for your pre-existing back condition. With a “softer” zone in the head and foot, this can allow for your shoulder area to sink in a bit more, and when combined with an appropriate pillow (for more neutral alignment) can offer a very comfortable solution.

The sales agent made it seem as though they make their own foam, as the Koosh was a proprietary foam


Proprietary would simply mean that the foam, or the specific formulation or density/ILD combination, is specific to that particular retailer, and is not necessarily indicative of a foam that is produced by the particular fabricator.

the lady I spoke to in person. He told me the Blue Foam is a 3lb ployfoam. He recommended a different configuration over the phone, but i'm going in to see him tomorrow so I will have more then.


If the 3 lb is accurate, this would be a very high density and good quality polyfoam for the 6” support core. A very high density normally seen for a polyfoam core is in 2-2.5 lb range.

As for the ripping of the zones. Andy at TON Furniture, said that it is best the mattress be zoned in the middle (transition) layer. The top (comfort) and bottom (support) layer should be one slap of foam of 1 thickness and density. Only the middle layer should be zoned with different materials to minimize or reduce ripping/deterioration of the foam at the seams and prolong its life as opposed to zoning the top comfort layer. I hope this clarifies things for you. What are your thoughts on this?


Yes, this make more sense to me, thank you. Having a zoning system in the middle or even deeper layers is common, but I would tend to make my decision primarily based upon the comfort provided by the arrangement.

The densities are as follows for the Reloks mattress from TON:
Top Layer: 35 ILD he didn't know the density rating
Middle Layer 1.7LB
Bottom Layer is 1.9LB


The ILD is more important to know for the latex layer (density/ILD are closely related for Talalay latex), but a 35ILD is quite firm. The density for the 2” polyfoam core at 1.7 lb is just a little below what I’d like to see at 1.8 lb, and the polyfoam 6” core at 1.9 lb is a good density, but at your BMI “ideally” I’d like to see a slightly higher ILD for the polyfoams near 2 lb.

What are your thoughts on Selene foam. Apparently its a new type of foam which is superior to the existing memory foam that I heard a couple of the manufacturers mention.


You’d have to provide me a link to what you’re specifically referencing so I an be more accurate in my reply.

Phoenix
15 Aug 2017 09:46
Replied by Phoenix on topic Tried Purple, considering local mattress Perfect Bliss line

Tried Purple, considering local mattress Perfect Bliss line

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi anotherscott,

Good point, though the fact remains that you probably need to spend more than $999 to get the benefits of this $999 mattress.


This would apply to any mattress you purchased, as you’ll need to acquire a mattress pad/protector and a set of sheets (and perhaps a pillow or two). This is not unique to this particular mattress. You’ll always want to maintain a healthy and comfortable sleep environment.

As for other mattresses where point elasticity is paramount, is there a certain "spec" that tells you that that is the case? i.e. is there an easy way to know whether a given mattress will specifically benefit from stretchy accessories?


Point elasticity tends to be higher in item mattresses containing memory foam and latex, as they are the most point elastic foam padding materials, but the point being made it that you don’t want a mattress pad/protector or set of sheets that would be stiff and detract from the comfort of your mattress, which you would probably notice more with a plush product than with a harder feeling product.

But I think I see what they mean now... the "may refuse" to cover disclaimer presumably refers to what had been said further up in the warranty statement ("unsanitary conditions," etc.),


Yes, that entire paragraph deals with things that can potentially void the warranty, including unsanitary conditions – you are correct. The one sentence in the middle of that paragraph is more than likely the result of people who have purchased mattress protectors that are quite thick or perhaps have a vinyl layer in them (or are a zippered vinyl encasement), which could dramatically alter the comfort of the mattress.

Phoenix
14 Aug 2017 17:50
Replied by anotherscott on topic Tried Purple, considering local mattress Perfect Bliss line

Tried Purple, considering local mattress Perfect Bliss line

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Phoenix wrote: That would be a concern with many mattresses where point elasticity is paramount, not just with the Purple mattress, so I’d actually consider it a plush that Purple takes the time to mention this proactively in their warranty (although it’s more of a tip and not a warranty requirement).

Good point, though the fact remains that you probably need to spend more than $999 to get the benefits of this $999 mattress. As for other mattresses where point elasticity is paramount, is there a certain "spec" that tells you that that is the case? i.e. is there an easy way to know whether a given mattress will specifically benefit from stretchy accessories?

Phoenix wrote: They state the not using a stretchy mattress protector will negate much of the benefits of the mattress – there is no implication of voiding the warranty.
... Overall, your interpretation of this section of the Purple warranty isn’t accurate (I know some of the dry writing of warranties can be a bit confusing), which is why I’ve provided the clarification here. ;)

Yup, that's the portion, and as I said, I thought it was oddly worded and not crystal clear, which is why I qualified my statement with "seems to imply." But I think I see what they mean now... the "may refuse" to cover disclaimer presumably refers to what had been said further up in the warranty statement ("unsanitary conditions," etc.), rather than what had been stated in closer proximity (regarding "a non-stretchy or non-breathable mattress protector"). A little editing might help there! For example, if they had put the entire sentence that begins with "Please note" in parenthesis (with a little artful rephrasing to cover the sheet as well, without nesting parentheses), that would make it more clear that that is "helpful info" and not specifically related to the terms of the warranty. Anyway, thanks for making me read it again, more slowly. ;-)
14 Aug 2017 17:24 - 14 Aug 2017 17:26
Replied by Phoenix on topic Tried Purple, considering local mattress Perfect Bliss line

Tried Purple, considering local mattress Perfect Bliss line

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi anotherscott,

Having looked into Purple a bit, I learned that it's actually a bit pricier than you might at first expect. They make a point of saying that you "negate much of the benefit" of their tech unless your mattress protector and sheet are stretchy.


That would be a concern with many mattresses where point elasticity is paramount, not just with the Purple mattress, so I’d actually consider it a plush that Purple takes the time to mention this proactively in their warranty (although it’s more of a tip and not a warranty requirement).

Since you probably don't already have anything like that, that effectively adds $174 to the purchase of a Queen. And that's assuming you're okay with just one set of sheets, compromising with some existing sheets while these are in the laundry. Otherwise, a second set of stretchy sheets brings that figure up to $288.


You can find comfortable sheets that are stretch knit and a quality mattress protector for much less than that. There’s no requirement to purchase the sheets that they offer.

With other beds, unless you're changing sizes, you can probably just keep using the protector and sheets you have, so comparatively speaking, this can make Purple a noticeably more expensive choice.


You can use your existing sheets on a Purple mattress as well. Their point about the sheets is simply that if you’re looking to maximize the feel of the buckling column gel, you’ll want to make sure your mattress pad/protector and sheets don’t detract from that, which must mean that some people have used very stiff sheets on this product and complained of the feel (which would be no different from any other plush or point elastic mattress). But since Purple makes such a point of the unique characteristics of their buckling column gel, apparently they felt the need to include this in their warranty, as they mention a few sentences later that the comfort preference is not covered under the warranty (which is pretty standard boilerplate for a mattress warranty).

As an aside, an oddly worded sentence on their warranty page seems to imply that use of non-stretchy mattress protectors may void the warranty, too


They state the not using a stretchy mattress protector will negate much of the benefits of the mattress – there is no implication of voiding the warranty.

As for keeping the mattress clean and stains voiding a warranty, that is also standard boilerplate in the mattress industry, specifically referring back to OSHA 1910.1030. Specifically, from their warranty page :

This warranty shall not apply if Purple determines in its reasonable discretion that the mattress or foundation has been damaged, abused, or neglected; it shall be reasonable without limitation to make such determination if the following are present: Tears, stains, odors, unsanitary conditions, folds, footprints, burns, cuts, or signs of jumping on the bed, rodents, insect damage or other infestation, damage from liquids or gels or blood or bodily fluids or other fluids, or damage from weather or sun exposure. Purple highly recommends the use of a very stretchy, breathable mattress protector because without such protection your mattress may not be clean enough or undamaged enough to have this warranty apply. Please note that a non-stretchy or non-breathable mattress protector (or non-stretchy tight sheets) will negate much of the benefit of The Purple® Bed. For the health and safety of anyone who would be required to dispose of, or otherwise handle, the sleep set, Purple and its retailers or agents may refuse to inspect such products to assess whether covered by the warranty, in which case, Purple reserves the right to deny warranty coverage. Photos may be requested to be sent by internet to Purple. Localized firmness changes are normal and are not covered under warranty. Comfort preferences are not covered under warranty. The mattress must be always covered in use or the warranty is void (UV light degrades cushioning materials).

Overall, your interpretation of this section of the Purple warranty isn’t accurate (I know some of the dry writing of warranties can be a bit confusing), which is why I’ve provided the clarification here. ;)

Phoenix
14 Jul 2017 10:32 - 01 Nov 2018 10:09
Replied by Phoenix on topic How to find right memory foam mattress

How to find right memory foam mattress

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi FLFisherman,

Unfortunately it's hard to compare mattresses in stores to those online. Luckily those online have good trial and return policies. Still, I feel that as long as a mattress isn't brutally uncomfortable we will both be happy with it.


While nothing has a 100% success rate, many people certainly are more comfortable staying local for a purchase, and careful testing using the guidelines in the tutorial rather than just testing for the more subjective "comfort" of a mattress (which often won't predict how well you will sleep on a mattress or how it will "feel" when you sleep on it at home) and some good guidance from a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer will usually result in a mattress choice that is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and will generally be "close enough" so that if any fine tuning is necessary it would be relatively minor and involve different mattress pads, sheets, mattress protectors, or perhaps even a topper if a mattress is too firm (see post #4 here and post #10 here ).

At least that's what we thought until we tried out a latex/spring hybrid at Macy's (Nature's Spa). Now we are giving some consideration to latex and especially latex/spring. The price premium on them is nothing to scoff at, but it seems they last a long while and have good customer satisfaction.


You can read a little more about Paramount (who makes the Nature’s Spa)in post #2 here and the posts it links to. You’d want to know about all of the componentry within any mattress before making a buying decision, and unfortunately Paramount doesn't normally disclose all the information you would need to know to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in their mattresses, and Macy’s also doesn’t list those details on their web site.

An all-latex or a latex hybrid sleep system certainly can be a very comfortable/durable option, but you’d need to know about all of the foam layers within the mattress. While it is about online offerings, there is a list of some spring/latex mattress (hybrid) providers in post #2 here .

Phoenix
30 Jun 2017 13:38 - 01 Nov 2018 13:20
Replied by Phoenix on topic Purchase Help

Purchase Help

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi Sweet Dreams,

I’m sorry you had difficulty in getting replies from Paramount Sleep. I don’t know that this is normal for their customer service (other members here of the site have received replies from them previously), but they generally don’t share the densities of their polyfoam (they consider it “proprietary”).

When making a purchase, I would be cautious with buying from liquidation or clearance stores like The Dump (see post #8 here ) and at the very least I would check any mattress carefully for any evidence of use and make sure that it has a manufacturers warranty.

Phoenix
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