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18 Jun 2017 08:39
Replied by Phoenix on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi zab,

I was requesting the densities for the transition and base foams used in a specific (memory foam) mattress. Perhaps the manager at the one location would have been able to provide me with the information. I like that Urban Mattress has this information readily available on their website so that I don't have to ask in the first place.


Thanks for the further clarification. Yes, it would be nice to have that information readily available for those polyfoams, or at least have someone acquire it for you in a timely manner. It's definitely information you'd need to make an informed decision.

Thanks! I'll take a look.


I hope the information there gets you a good start on your search.

Phoenix
17 Jun 2017 18:14 - 05 Nov 2018 23:17
Replied by zab on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

To be fair to the salespeople you encountered, if you were inquiring about latex, this is most commonly referenced by ILDs and not densities, especially Talalay. If it was for memory foam or polyfoam, if the salespeople didn’t know that information (sometimes it isn’t provided to them) hopefully that is information that they would have been able to find out and get back to you about.


I was requesting the densities for the transition and base foams used in a specific (memory foam) mattress. Perhaps the manager at the one location would have been able to provide me with the information.

I like that Urban Mattress has this information readily available on their website so that I don't have to ask in the first place.

There’s some good information about mattress protectors in post #89 here and this post .
Phoenix


Thanks! I'll take a look.
17 Jun 2017 08:23 - 05 Nov 2018 23:12
Replied by Phoenix on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi zab,

Thanks for your update.

Long story short, I got sick of being stuck in "analysis paralysis" and decided to go with the Ravenswood.


Congratulations on your new mattress! :cheer:

I was not very impressed with the customer support at Austin Natural Mattress. I called one of the locations to ask about the densities of the transition and base foams, and the person on phone responded by telling me the ILDs.


To be fair to the salespeople you encountered, if you were inquiring about latex, this is most commonly referenced by ILDs and not densities, especially Talalay. If it was for memory foam or polyfoam, if the salespeople didn’t know that information (sometimes it isn’t provided to them) hopefully that is information that they would have been able to find out and get back to you about.

My experience at Urban Mattress was also phenomenal.


I’m glad you had a nice experience there.

The choice between the Ravenswood and the Highland, however, was a tough one! I ultimately went with the Ravenswood. I reasoned that since these were floor models, brand new mattresses might feel slightly firmer. And the Highland in the store already felt slightly firm to me. So, while the foam might break in over time, there's no guarantee that it will feel any different than the mattress I tested in the store. I could be wrong about that, but it made sense at the time, haha.


That is logical. Most stores will mention that your new mattress will feel slightly firmer than the floor model because of the “breaking-in” that the floor model has already experienced.

Now I have to figure out which bed frame and mattress protector to get...


There’s some good information about mattress protectors in post #89 here and this post .

Phoenix
17 Jun 2017 06:05 - 17 Jun 2017 06:16
Replied by zab on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Long story short, I got sick of being stuck in "analysis paralysis" and decided to go with the Ravenswood.

I was not very impressed with the customer support at Austin Natural Mattress. I called one of the locations to ask about the densities of the transition and base foams, and the person on phone responded by telling me the ILDs. When I again requested the densities, I was told that foam density doesn't affect "comfort." Okay. I know that. But that's not an answer to my question! I later visited the nearby location and asked another salesperson for the densities. He also didn't know because he's not the "manager" and had "only" been working there for several months.

More importantly, though, I decided that it is time for a change. I've been sleeping on foam mattresses for the last 6 years without ever doing a proper comparison. Having done the comparison, I prefer the edge support and overall feel of the Ravenswood and Highland.

My experience at Urban Mattress was also phenomenal. Before making my purchase, I was lucky to notice that they were hosting a Yelp Elite "slumber party" event. I got to meet the owner and received a $70 pillow for free (plus a coupon for another free pillow upon purchasing a mattress). I also told the owner that I was planning to buy a mattress later that week and asked if he could help me out with a discount. He said he could do 10% off plus throw in some free sheets.

The choice between the Ravenswood and the Highland, however, was a tough one! I ultimately went with the Ravenswood. I reasoned that since these were floor models, brand new mattresses might feel slightly firmer. And the Highland in the store already felt slightly firm to me. So, while the foam might break in over time, there's no guarantee that it will feel any different than the mattress I tested in the store. I could be wrong about that, but it made sense at the time, haha.

The Ravenswood was also cheaper. Plus, I have a trial period, so if the mattress feels too soft to me over time, I can always exchange it for the Highland. And if the mattress feels great over time, then I saved myself some money.

The total came to $681.98 for the mattress. They threw in another free pillow. (They wouldn't let me use the coupon for both the sheets and the pillow, so I chose the pillow.) They'll also remove my old mattress upon delivery. The mattress should arrive Tuesday.

Thanks again for all the help. Now I have to figure out which bed frame and mattress protector to get...
05 Jun 2017 13:15
Replied by Phoenix on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi zab,

Can you please remind me as to why that is?


Generally, I advise about 4” or so of memory foam together as approaching a maximum thickness, as that allows for quite a bit of conformation and is usually around the maximum that most people would need between the differences in dimensions (shoulders to torso to waist to hips). I speak a little more about this here .

There is no such thing as "supportive" memory foam . While it's true that some will hold up more weight than others or are "relatively firmer" ... none of them are supportive enough to be used in the support layers of a mattress. When talking about memory foam ... words like "supportive" really mean degrees of softness. Memory foam is a pressure relieving comfort material not a support material. The support layers underneath the memory foam are the supportive part of the mattress.

Here's another article about the steps for selecting a mattress that you might find useful.

Phoenix
05 Jun 2017 12:07 - 05 Jun 2017 12:07
Replied by zab on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Also, I usually recommend a maximum of around 4” of memory foam layers, and this one uses almost 5”, so it is a little over what I would normally advise.


Can you please remind me as to why that is?

$1099 is the current price for the queen – it’s possible they made a mistake in the size they quoted you.


Yeah, that's what I suspect.
05 Jun 2017 10:30 - 05 Nov 2018 23:09
Replied by Phoenix on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi zab,

I checked out Austin Natural Mattress this weekend, and I really liked their The Townes . Very comfortable, and doesn't really have that memory foam "feel" that I'm trying to avoid - it's soft and has relatively good responsiveness.


I would make sure that you find out the complete specifications of this mattress, as there is 3” of a “transition foam” and 3” of a base foam where the information is incomplete on their web site. Also, I usually recommend a maximum of around 4” of memory foam layers, and this one uses almost 5”, so it is a little over what I would normally advise.

The salesperson quoted me $1099 as a sale price for a full size, but I think this might be a mistake, because the website lists the full size at $799 on sale.


$1099 is the current price for the queen – it’s possible they made a mistake in the size they quoted you.

I'll inquire about the price Monday afternoon, but if the mattress is $799, then I'm really conflicted. I like all three - again, they just have different feels. I think I might find The Townes to be the most comfortable - but, again, it's really hard to tell.


Your own personal testing is your best guidance. You’ve sated all the items have different feels, so only you can determine which “feel” you prefer best.

Having said that, I do prefer the edge support and more bouncy feel of the innerspring options. Austin Natural Mattress also has a much more restrictive return policy - returns are not permitted, and while you can make an exchange within 30 days, you have to pay shipping. I think they might also charge shipping on top of the price of the mattress - I'll have to ask.


These are all important things to consider as part of your personal value equation . Make a Pro/Con list for each item on a legal pad for each item to make it simple.

Do you have any advice about testing the mattresses themselves?


Yes, in the mattress shopping tutorial steps I’ve linked to previously, and this article here .

P.S. Tried a latex mattress just for the heck of it. Definitely see what you mean about the "buoyancy" feel - and pretty sure I don't like it.


I’m glad you were able to try this personally, as that is a better way to determine versus any descriptors or specifications.

Phoenix
04 Jun 2017 22:44 - 05 Jun 2017 03:44
Replied by zab on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Now I'm even more confused! I checked out Austin Natural Mattress this weekend, and I really liked their The Townes . Very comfortable, and doesn't really have that memory foam "feel" that I'm trying to avoid - it's soft and has relatively good responsiveness.

The salesperson quoted me $1099 as a sale price for a full size, but I think this might be a mistake, because the website lists the full size at $799 on sale. If that is right, then this mattress is in my price range. Otherwise, I can probably rule it out.

I'll inquire about the price Monday afternoon, but if the mattress is $799, then I'm really conflicted. I like all three - again, they just have different feels. I think I might find The Townes to be the most comfortable - but, again, it's really hard to tell. Having said that, I do prefer the edge support and more bouncy feel of the innerspring options. Austin Natural Mattress also has a much more restrictive return policy - returns are not permitted, and while you can make an exchange within 30 days, you have to pay shipping. I think they might also charge shipping on top of the price of the mattress - I'll have to ask.

Do you have any advice about testing the mattresses themselves? I feel like how a mattress feels to me when I lay on it in the store probably differs from how it will feel to me when I sleep on it at home. So, I'm wondering if there is more I can do in terms of testing to help make a decision.

P.S. Tried a latex mattress just for the heck of it. Definitely see what you mean about the "buoyancy" feel - and pretty sure I don't like it.
03 Jun 2017 09:56
Replied by Phoenix on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi zab,

Update - I visited my local Urban Mattress today. The salesperson was very helpful. He showed me three mattresses broadly within my price range and was helpful in explaining the differences between them.


Thanks for the update. I’m happy that you were able to take some time and try out a few mattresses in person.

But between the Ravenswood and the Highland, it's very tough. I'm not sure one feels more comfortable than the other - they just feel very different. I think I might find the Ravenswood slightly more comfortable. It's also $200 cheaper. I also worry that while the Highland feels relatively comfortable now, if I lose any weight (a goal I plan to realize within a year), it'll feel too firm - whereas it seems unlikely that the Ravenswood will feel too soft over time. The main disadvantage of the Ravenswood is that it uses 1.8 lb foam in the comfort layer, unlike the Highland, which uses 2.1 lb. So, I'm somewhat conflicted over this.


Both mattresses use good quality and durable materiasl, and for the time frame you’ve specified for the product, I think you’re choosing between “good” and “good”. One thing to keep in mind is that all foams will soften a bit over time. This doesn’t mean that the Highland will eventually be as soft as the Ravenswood is now, but they will gradually become more plush moving forward. I don’t know the difference in the ILDs of the foam in each bed, but even if you had that number it really wouldn’t be as important as your own personal testing. It is true that the Highland has more dense foam on top, but for what you’re looking to do I certainly wouldn’t discount the Ravenswood. And I would choose the mattress for what feels best to you in the present. While you are working on losing weight in the future, I advise people to pick something that works well for you right now.

I’m happy that you’ve already been able to find some good quality products, all of which should work well for your application. :cheer:

Phoenix
02 Jun 2017 19:41
Replied by zab on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Update - I visited my local Urban Mattress today. The salesperson was very helpful. He showed me three mattresses broadly within my price range and was helpful in explaining the differences between them.

I tried the Ravenswood ($700), the Highland ($900), and the Reverence ($900).

The first two utilize pocketed coils in the support core. The only difference between them is that the Ravenswood has two 1" layers of 1.8 lb. quilt foam, while the Highland uses 2.1 lb foam. By contrast, the Reverence consists of a 6″ layer of 2.5 lb. 28 ILD foam core, one 2″ layer of 1.8 lb. 24 ILD foam, and two 1.5″ layers of 2.1 lb. foam.

The salesperson also told me that the warranty is not voided by failing to use a boxspring, which is good, because I don't want one. The shipping is also free, and they'll take your old mattress for free as well. Plus, if you don't like the mattress within so many days, they'll pick it up free of charge for an exchange. It sounds like the return policy is similar.

None of these felt more or less comfortable than the others - they all just feel different. For example, the Ravenswood is fairly soft, while the Highland feels firm at first, but less noticeably firm the longer you lay on it. The Reverence is very similar in feel to the Highland, only it has less edge support and is less bouncy. I think I prefer the innerspring options to the Reverence.

But between the Ravenswood and the Highland, it's very tough. I'm not sure one feels more comfortable than the other - they just feel very different. I think I might find the Ravenswood slightly more comfortable. It's also $200 cheaper. I also worry that while the Highland feels relatively comfortable now, if I lose any weight (a goal I plan to realize within a year), it'll feel too firm - whereas it seems unlikely that the Ravenswood will feel too soft over time.

The main disadvantage of the Ravenswood is that it uses 1.8 lb foam in the comfort layer, unlike the Highland, which uses 2.1 lb. So, I'm somewhat conflicted over this.

I'll try the other stores in my area before I make a decision, but right now, I'm leaning toward the Ravenswood. It's a reasonable price, it feels comfortable, I'll be able to get rid of my old mattress for free (bonus points), and I can always return it if I don't like it after sleeping on it for a month.
02 Jun 2017 13:38
Replied by Phoenix on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi zab,

It appears that Addable no longer has any full size mattresses in stock on their website. I'm going to email them to double check.


Funny coincidence, I just had a member contact me about this and apparently they’re waiting on fabric from the mill and it could be 2-4 weeks, and right now they are out of stock of the full and queen covers.

I've heard bad things about Purple having to do with a powder they use - but maybe I shouldn't be worried by those rumors; I just checked and Purple is CertiPur certified.


You can see some of my comments about the polyethylene coating used over the buckling column gel here , as well as comments about it from purple here , including links to studies they’ve commissioned about this polyethylene co-polymer which they say show it to be “safe”.

Given my BMI, what do you think would be more durable - the Best Mattress Ever with 4.0 lb foam in the comfort layers but 1.8 lb foam in the support layer, or the Madison Plush with the 1.8 lb foam in the comfort layers but innersprings in the support layer?


I don’t see any reason that either product wouldn’t work well for your specific application.

Phoenix
02 Jun 2017 02:39 - 02 Jun 2017 02:42
Replied by zab on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

If you’re not interested in mattresses using latex, you missed Addable and Purple. Of course, that list is not complete for all simplified choice online mattresses available.


It appears that Addable no longer has any full size mattresses in stock on their website. I'm going to email them to double check.

I've heard bad things about Purple having to do with a powder they use - but maybe I shouldn't be worried by those rumors; I just checked and Purple is CertiPur certified.

Yes, memory foam is not resilient and is more difficult to reposition on. You’ve mentioned before that you don’ like this feeling, which is why I’m curious that you aren’t looking at something using latex.


Long story short, my mom has a bad latex allergy, so she's paranoid to be in the same space as latex. I recognize that the latex used in mattresses is unlikely to incite an allergic reaction. But I probably won't be able to persuade her of that. So, in order to make visits easier, I'm better off just avoiding latex for the time being.

This mattress doesn’t use latex, nor does it use foam similar to the TitanFlex (which I described as more "buoyant") so I wouldn’t expect it to have such a feel of being “buoyant”. I’m not sure why you would have an aversion to an innerspring unit, as that particular model did use quite a bit of polyfoam between yourself and the springs (so you shouldn't feel the pressure points of the springs as you described previously), but if you decide to go that route then don’t test any models with springs on the inside to narrow down your focus.


Given my BMI, what do you think would be more durable - the Best Mattress Ever with 4.0 lb foam in the comfort layers but 1.8 lb foam in the support layer, or the Madison Plush with the 1.8 lb foam in the comfort layers but innersprings in the support layer?

Thanks again for all the other information. I'm going to test some mattresses this weekend.
01 Jun 2017 16:58
Replied by ea.myers on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

This world of mattresses is confusing. At first I was interested in Sealy's Hybrid Copper Plush.Then I tried Lady Americana's Elite, and Temperpedic's Cloud. Then I tried Eco-Comfort and like it best. After reading your article I started calling the local manufactures. The custom local manufacturer has been in business in OKC for 26 years.
I am 60 yr. old female, who sleeps on her side, weighs 135 lbs., with neck and lower back issues and gets warm at night . I would like an opinion on Eco-Comfort Rainier Soft for $1,599.95, CertiPur from Mathis Bros or a custom 6" talay latex foam, 3 in gel infused memory foam and a cotton organic bed protector for $1450, made here locally by Quality Bedding Company. The memory foam needs to be replaced in about 7 yrs. I will be buying an adjustable bed frame as well, I've heard Leggett & Platt?? He quoted $1599 w/ massage, laptop plugin was extra. please help, I'm tired of looking. This is a bad attitude for such an important decision, I now know more than the sales people I've met and Mattress Firm would not let me take pictures and seemed annoyed with my request for specs.
01 Jun 2017 15:56
Replied by Phoenix on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi zab,

I looked through the list a few times, and I didn't see any non-latex mattresses with >2.0 lb density in the support layer. What am I missing?


If you’re not interested in mattresses using latex, you missed Addable and Purple. Of course, that list is not complete for all simplified choice online mattresses available. Post #12 here has some of the better online memory foam options for those who are looking for a memory foam mattress, and many have cores 2 lb or above.

I know I can't know for sure without just trying the Novosbed. However, I did try a memory foam mattress at Denver Mattress , and I didn't find it comfortable at all. I don't know quite how to describe it. But I like being able to roll into new positions, and on that mattress, I felt like I was rolling across very firm quicksand or something. It also had no bounce, which I think added to the feeling of firmness. Does that sound like a general feature of memory foam? If so, I wonder if it is reasonable to infer that the Novosbed will feel broadly similar - in which case, it sounds like the Best Mattress Ever is the better choice.


Yes, memory foam is not resilient and is more difficult to reposition on. You’ve mentioned before that you don’ like this feeling, which is why I’m curious that you aren’t looking at something using latex.

I did like the initial feel of the Madison Plush , but I'm not sure if I'd describe it as "buoyant." (I'm just somewhat reluctant to consider the Madison Plush since it uses innersprings.)


This mattress doesn’t use latex, nor does it use foam similar to the TitanFlex (which I described as more "buoyant") so I wouldn’t expect it to have such a feel of being “buoyant”. I’m not sure why you would have an aversion to an innerspring unit, as that particular model did use quite a bit of polyfoam between yourself and the springs (so you shouldn't feel the pressure points of the springs as you described previously), but if you decide to go that route then don’t test any models with springs on the inside to narrow down your focus.

I was wondering whether the thickness can play a role in durability in combination with the density. For example, all else being equal, are 4" and 3" layers of foam at 4.0 lb density equal with respect to durability, since they have the same densities?


There are many factors involved in form durability, which I cover in more detail here . I would have no concern between a total of 3” or 4” of a 4 lb polyfoam in general.

Phoenix
01 Jun 2017 14:00 - 05 Nov 2018 23:04
Replied by zab on topic Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Need a new mattress and becoming quickly bewildered (Austin, TX)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

I’m not sure what online options you’ve looked at, but there are plenty using 2 lb or higher density in the polyfoam core. Take a look at the simplified choice thread here for a few examples. Also, for your application, it’s not as if a 1.8 lb or even 1.5 lb polyfoam core of a higher ILD couldn’t work for the time frame you specified. The guidelines are just that – not absolutes. Just realize with lower density foams that durability can be shorter.


I looked through the list a few times, and I didn't see any non-latex mattresses with >2.0 lb density in the support layer. What am I missing?

Yes, the TitanFlex polyfoam is a very high-density foam that is supposed to have some good resilience to it, akin to latex, but of course not the same as latex. It will be a more “buoyant” feel than the Novosbed. ...

You may be better off trying products locally to see if you have an affinity for a certain type of componentry and then attempt to find other mattresses using similar componentry to keep you in the same “range” of product. If you think you don’t like memory foam, then I would avoid products using that in the upper comfort layers.


I know I can't know for sure without just trying the Novosbed. However, I did try a ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: denvermattress.furniturerow.com/dmc/Green-Choice/Green-Choice-Bliss-Group/Green-Choiceandreg-Bliss/prod1160051/3139981697/
memory foam mattress at Denver Mattress, and I didn't find it comfortable at all. I don't know quite how to describe it. But I like being able to roll into new positions, and on that mattress, I felt like I was rolling across very firm quicksand or something. It also had no bounce, which I think added to the feeling of firmness.

Does that sound like a general feature of memory foam? If so, I wonder if it is reasonable to infer that the Novosbed will feel broadly similar - in which case, it sounds like the Best Mattress Ever is the better choice.

I did like the initial feel of the Madison Plush , but I'm not sure if I'd describe it as "buoyant." (I'm just somewhat reluctant to consider the Madison Plush since it uses innersprings.)

Good question. The density is actually quite simple – it is the mass per unit volume of a cubic foot of the foam . In the USA, we express it in pounds per cubic foot. The thickness of the piece of slit foam that is used within a mattress does not change the density that is expressed for that foam.


I was wondering whether the thickness can play a role in durability in combination with the density. For example, all else being equal, are 4" and 3" layers of foam at 4.0 lb density equal with respect to durability, since they have the same densities?

Thanks for the all the other info! I'll look into it.
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