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20 Feb 2016 12:36 - 20 Nov 2017 13:11
Replied by Phoenix on topic Dreamfoam vs Foamorder

Dreamfoam vs Foamorder

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi elapid95,

But i think im going to get the dreamfoam topper as i do have good experience ordering from them already also knowing that they have great quality.


Assuming that you decide to pull the trigger ... I'm looking forward to your comments and feedback once you've ordered and received it and have had the chance to try it out.

Phoenix
Note Added Later: To elapid95
I got your message...No problem! I will proceed with deleting your old posts as per your request.
Phoenix
19 Feb 2016 11:36 - 11 Dec 2018 04:52
Dreamfoam vs Foamorder was created by Phoenix

Dreamfoam vs Foamorder

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi elapid95,

Yes i was just wondering which would have better value.


Unfortunately there isn't a formula that can "calculate" the value of a mattress topper because there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved ... even if you are comparing similar toppers that are the same thickness and the same density.

The most important part of the "value" of a topper is how well you will sleep on it in combination with your mattress and the only way to know this would be based on your own personal experience. There are many different formulations of memory foam that can be very different from each other that can affect how it feels and performs relative to other similar toppers (see post #9 here and post #8 here ).

The next most important part of the "value" of a topper is durability and in general terms higher density memory foam will last longer than lower density versions of the same material. I don't know the density of the toppers you are comparing.

There is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers and would be the most reliable source of information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.

When you can't test a mattress/topper combination in person then the return/exchange policy of the retailer or manufacturer you are buying from (and any costs involved) can also be one of the most important parts of the "value" of a topper purchase just in case the topper doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for.

I've known dreamfoam for a while now, and i know they sell great quality stuff. But ive never heard much (or rather looked up yet as of much yet on this site) about foam order testimonials. Anyone have any input on foamroder?


I certainly agree with you about Dreamfoam and they sell great quality/value products. As you know they are a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

Hopefully some of the members here that have purchased from Foamorder will see your post and share their comments but in the meantime a forum search on foamorder (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well. Even though they aren't a member of the site (at least yet) ... I also think highly of Foamorder as well and I would certainly consider them to be a reliable supplier.

Phoenix
15 Aug 2015 18:49 - 15 Aug 2015 19:04
Replied by Phoenix on topic Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi FlyNFish,

I've read other posts where you mentioned 4lb gel may be ok for 200+lbs if it's made properly. Do you know how Dream Foam makes their gel memory foam?


Dreamfoam doesn't make the memory foam itself ... only the mattress.

The density of memory foam is the single most important factor in the durability of the foam regardless of it's formulation but there is no way to quantify how long any specific mattress or combination of materials will last for a specific person or predict exactly when you will decide to replace it because it is no longer suitable or comfortable for you (because this is the only real measure of durability that counts) because there are too many unknowns and variables involved that are unique to each person. If a mattress is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and isn't close to the edge of being too soft when it is new and meets the minimum quality/durability specs that are suggested in the guidelines here then it would be reasonable to expect a useful lifetime in the range of 7 - 10 years for more average weight ranges. There is also more detailed information about all the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to different people in post #4 here and the posts it links to.

When you are heavier than about the lower 200's or so then I would tend to reduce or minimize the use of 4 lb memory foam and since you are on the very edge of this range it would probably be reasonable to expect that the useful life of a mattress that contained thicker layers of 4 lb memory foam would be a little less and treat anything more than that as being "bonus time".

Phoenix
15 Aug 2015 18:10
Replied by FlyNFish on topic Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Category: General Mattresses Questions

I'd really like to pull the trigger I the UD 12" gel supreme, just based on the value it seems compared to the others. My hesitation is the 4lb foam density.

I've read other posts where you mentioned 4lb gel may be ok for 200+lbs if it's made properly. Do you know how Dream Foam makes their gel memory foam?

Thanks.
11 Aug 2015 09:57
Replied by Phoenix on topic Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi FlyNFish,

So taking cost out of the picture, is the latex a better buy in terms of support, coolness, anything else? We would likely go either foam or latex base on both sides, she was happy on both, we just want to get the most out of our money, ie durability, and I like the support of the latex. But both are close.


Only you can decide which of them would be a "better buy" because it would be a preference choice more than a "better/worse" choice. For some people that preferred the feel and performance of the latex middle and bottom layer it would be a better buy and for others that either preferred the polyfoam support core or that couldn't tell enough of a difference between them to justify the higher cost it wouldn't be.

As I mentioned in my last reply ... the main difference would be in how the two mattresses compared in terms of feel and PPP and whether they could feel the difference between the polyfoam and the latex enough to justify the higher cost.

The upper layers are the weakest link in a mattress in terms of durability so there wouldn't be a great deal of difference between 2.8 lb polyfoam and latex if the top layer is the same.

The top layers and the cover would also have the biggest effect on sleeping temperature and since they would be the same in both the different foam materials in the deeper layers would also make little difference in temperature regulation.

There is more about the many variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to different people in the quality/durability guidelines here and the more detailed information in post #4 here that it links to.

There is also more about the variables that can affect temperature regulation in post #2 here .

Phoenix
11 Aug 2015 09:31
Replied by FlyNFish on topic Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Thanks for the response. So taking cost out of the picture, is the latex a better buy in terms of support, coolness, anything else? We would likely go either foam or latex base on both sides, she was happy on both, we just want to get the most out of our money, ie durability, and I like the support of the latex. But both are close.
10 Aug 2015 23:31 - 11 Aug 2015 00:43
Replied by Phoenix on topic Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi FlyNFish,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

You are certainly looking some very good quality/value choices even though they are very different from each other.

Before I reply to your questions I would keep in mind the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing or your own personal sleeping experience (see post #2 here ).

I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don't involve what you will "feel" on a mattress, and help with "how" to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress or combination of materials is the best match for you based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Initially I tried 4" memory foam with 2 x 3" layers of N36, and it was slightly firm, but close in comfort to the N31, N36 combo. I think I preferred the 31/36 Combo. I have thoughts of adding another 3". Alan didn't think we needed it, yet most of the research I've read for 200+lbs a 12" mattress is best.


The thickness of a mattress is really just a side effect of the design and internal layering of a mattress and is only one of many variables and specs that will affect how a mattress feels and performs and by itself thickness means very little (see post #2 here ). I would focus much more on whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP than I would on the thickness of the mattress and overemphasizing the importance of thickness can be more of a distraction than anything else.

Whether to add some extra thickness is also something that only you can answer because it would depend on which one your careful testing indicated was a better match for you in terms of PPP and whether any difference between them was "enough" to justify the higher cost. It's very possible that the thinner mattress would be a better "match" for you in terms of PPP and it's possible that the thicker mattress could be a more suitable choice and it's also possible that you may not notice much of a difference at all. The only way to know would be based on your own testing and/or personal experience. It certainly wouldn't affect the durability or useful life of the mattress.

.1. Is this worth the cost for 12" vs 10"? Roughly $400 more
2. If I went with another 3", would you just add the V44 on her side and N36 on mine?


Again I would make these types of choice based strictly on which combination of layers your testing indicated was the best "match" for both of you in terms of PPP because either way there would be no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress.

As an aside ... if you are using different types of materials in the layers on each side of a mattress there will likely be a very noticeable difference between each side in terms of their feel and performance outside of any difference in firmness levels and I would be cautious about "mixing and matching" different types foam in the layering on each side of a mattress unless your testing (with both of you on the mattress and making sure that you test the transition between each side) clearly indicated that both of you prefer it compared to a split firmness mattress that uses the same type of materials on each side.

LAST... The price of the ultimate dreams is hard to beat. We'd be looking at about $2,200 for the FoamOrder, or $900 for the Ultimate Dreams for a split Eastern King.

Can you make any comparisons or shed any light to the decision making? As for durability, the Ultimate Dreams is only using a 1.8lb density base while foam order uses 2.8lb density base foam. So the durability seems nice from FoamOrder.


There is more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

The Ultimate Dreams would be in the same general category as your wife's side of the Foam Order mattress you are considering (memory foam on top of polyfoam) although it is a very different design but your side of the Foam Order mattress is in a completely different category and uses higher performance and more costly materials in the transition and base layers (latex vs polyfoam) so it really isn't an apples to apples comparison. The closest comparison between the Dreamfoam and the Foam Order mattress would be if both sides of the Foam Order mattress you are looking at used memory foam over polyfoam which would at least put them in the same general category.

The most important part of the "value" of a mattress purchase is comfort and PPP. The Ultimate Dreams 13" gel memory foam mattress is an approximation of the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe so you could test the Cloud Luxe as a "proxy" to decide which of the 3 mattresses you are considering would be a more suitable choice in terms of PPP since they would all be likely be quite different.

Outside of PPP ... the most important part of the value of a mattress is it's durability and a mattress is only as good as its construction and the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label. The memory foam/polyfoam side of the Foam Order mattress uses 5.3 lb memory foam and 2.8 lb polyfoam which are higher quality/density materials than the Ultimate Dreams 13" gel memory foam mattress which uses thicker layers of 4 and 5 lb memory foam and 1.8 lb polyfoam so while neither one of these have any lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress ... the Foam Order memory foam/polyfoam side would have a clear advantage in terms of durability (see the quality/durability guidelines here ).

The Latex/Memory foam side of the Foam Order mattress uses latex vs 2.8 lb polyfoam in the transition and base layers but because 2.8 lb polyfoam is such a high quality and durable material and because these are deeper layers in the mattress which have a smaller effect on durability ... even though the latex may be more durable "in theory" the biggest difference between them would be the effect of the latex on the feel and performance of the mattress more than durability. The latex would be more supportive (it has a higher compression modulus which is the rate that a material becomes firmer with deeper compression), more point elastic and contouring (it can conform to the shape of the body more effectively than polyfoam), and a more resilient (bouncy) material than polyfoam. The choice between them would be more of a preference choice than a "better/worse" choice.

The final part of the "value" of a mattress purchase outside of suitability and durability is how the mattresses compare in terms of all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.


While there are certainly significant differences between all three mattresses you are considering so they really aren't apples to apples comparisons ... if you are confident that all your finalists would be a good match for both of you in terms of PPP (or you have good options after a purchase if you aren't) and that there are no weak links in any of them in terms of durability then you would be down to finalists that are comparing "good to good". If there are no clear winners between them at this point (which is usually a good indication that you have done some very good research) then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely make a good quality/value choice and ( post #2 here ) can help you make a final choice based on your local testing or mattresses you have slept well on, your more detailed conversations with each of them, your confidence about PPP and the suitability of each one, their prices, your preferences, the options you have after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or exchange or return the mattress or individual layers, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on "informed best judgement" based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. Sometimes the final choice may even come down to a matter of "gut feel" or "educated best judgement".

Phoenix
10 Aug 2015 21:58 - 10 Aug 2015 22:05
Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13" was created by FlyNFish

Which bed... Custom FoamOrder or Ultimate Dreams 13"

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Live near San Francisco and spent some time at FoamOrder this weekend. I know it's not a "member" here, but Phoenix has spoken of Alan, and we really had a great experience there with his help. "Settled" on either a 10" or 12" of the following:

Wife:- 130lbs - side or back sleeper
4"- 5.3lb Memory Foam
3"- V34 Foam
3"- V44 Foam

Me- 220lbs- toss and turn because our mattress is horrible. Probably mostly side and sometimes stomach, would like to be a back sleeper.
4" - 5.3lb Memory Foam
3"- N31 Firm Latex
3" - N36 Extra Firm Latex

Initially I tried 4" memory foam with 2 x 3" layers of N36, and it was slightly firm, but close in comfort to the N31, N36 combo. I think I preferred the 31/36 Combo. I have thoughts of adding another 3". Alan didn't think we needed it, yet most of the research I've read for 200+lbs a 12" mattress is best.

.1. Is this worth the cost for 12" vs 10"? Roughly $400 more total for both halves.
2. If I went with another 3", would you just add the V44 on her side and N36 on mine?

LAST... The price of the ultimate dreams is hard to beat. We'd be looking at about $2,200 for the FoamOrder, or $900 for the Ultimate Dreams for a split Eastern King.

Can you make any comparisons or shed any light to the decision making? As for durability, the Ultimate Dreams is only using a 1.8lb density base while foam order uses 2.8lb density base foam. So the durability seems nice from FoamOrder.

I appreciate any help.
03 Nov 2013 10:44 - 03 Nov 2013 10:46
Replied by Phoenix on topic Latex bed Nature's Cloud Euro Top vs Foamorder

Latex bed Nature's Cloud Euro Top vs Foamorder

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi Bedman123,

They use Dunlop Latex and claim that the 3" comfort layer is Talalay Latex. I am unsure of the validity of this statement. Does anyone know if this is true.


They would be the most reliable source of information about their mattresses and anyone else's information would be coming from them as well (unless of course they opened up the mattress and were able to tell the difference between Talalay and Dunlop or were somehow able to measure the ILD). With these types of questions you are really dependent on the knowledge and integrity of the manufacturer (and in the case of Jamestown they are a long term manufacturer with great integrity that I think highly of).

I looked at Foamorder.com this evening and am confused by their order page. I tried to duplicate either of these 100% Organic Nature's Cloud beds and am unable to. They have five firmness levels Soft (17-25 ILD), Medium (26-30 ILD), Firm (31-35 ILD), Extra Firm (36-42 ILD), and Hard (43-48 ILD) but no super soft layer 15 ILD. I looked at the Organic Natural Sense Mattresses www.foamorder.com/organic-mattress.php#wool_puddle_pad as I assume these would be the equivalent 100% organic mattress. What custom layering would be similar to the Nature's Cloud Euro Top or Plush Top? Also would 3" N25 Natural Sense®


The only way to duplicate another mattress is to use the exact same materials in the same layer thicknesses and with the same cover (see post #9 here ). While all latex is a good quality material relative to other types of foam ... each type has it's own pros and cons and each latex supplier or manufacturer may have a different firmness range or different options or layer thicknesses available. In these cases you would need to "translate" the information from one mattress to another design which would require some guesswork and best judgement on the part of the manufacturer you are purchasing from and the options they provide for exchange or a return (if you are purchasing a mattress that you haven't tested especially) would play a role in the "risk" of your purchase if your choice doesn't turn out to be the same as you hoped. This is all part of each person's personal value equation .

I looked at the Organic Natural Sense Mattresses www.foamorder.com/organic-mattress.php#wool_puddle_pad as I assume these would be the equivalent 100% organic mattress.


This would depend on whether the latex was GOLS certified. There is a difference in cost between organic latex and 100% natural latex. Organic latex would have an organic certification and an organic cover would also have a certification either for the cover itself or for the materials inside it (in which case it would be a cover which "included" organic materials). You can read more about certified organic latex in post #6 here .

Royal Soft be worth it at $2934 no tax? What additions i.e. padding, sheets etc would you recommend? This price is still less than Jamestown Mattress' top of the line Nature's Cloud Euro Top.


If you are comparing mattresses then it's also important to make sure you are comparing "mattress only" to "mattress only" so you are making more apples to apples comparisons because there are also differences between the cost and quality of foundations that are included in a "set".

There are too many variables, unknowns, and preferences to make specific recommendations for someone for either a mattress or bedding based on "theory at a distance" so my goal is to provide people with the information that can help them with "how" to choose not "what" to choose and to help them make meaningful comparisons and help identify any weak links in a mattress' materials or construction. None of the mattresses you are mentioning have any obvious "weak links" or low quality materials in their construction so from that perspective they would all be good quality durable choices but the Foamorder mattress is a different mattress from the Nature's Cloud Euro with less latex and other differences in its construction and materials which means it would be different in terms of PPP.

Only you can decide if the risk of buying a mattress you haven't tried is "worth it" based on your risk tolerance and the criteria of your own personal value equation that are most important to you and your confidence that a mattress you purchase is a good match for your specific needs and preferences (which in the case of a mattress that you haven't tested would be based on more detailed conversations with a manufacturer or retailer on the phone). Both are high quality mattresses and you would be making a final choice between good and good.

Phoenix
02 Nov 2013 23:08
Latex bed Nature's Cloud Euro Top vs Foamorder was created by Bedman123

Latex bed Nature's Cloud Euro Top vs Foamorder

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi,

I am in the market for a latex mattress. We went to Jamestown Mattress and liked the Nature's Cloud Plush Latex
6” 100% Natural Medium (ILD 24-26) Latex Core,
3” 100% Natural Super Soft (ILD 14-16) Latex,
with top Quilted in the top panel are two plush layers of 100% Natural Joma™ Wool 100% Organic Cotton Fabric. Total 10" Mattress height and in King size with foundation with price about $3300 plus tax.

We also liked the Nature's Cloud Euro Top which is
2” 100% Natural Super Soft (ILD 14-16) Latex
3” 100% Natural Soft (ILD 19-21) Latex
6” 100% Natural Medium (ILD 24-26) Latex Core
Quilted in the top panel are two plush layers of 100% Natural Joma™ Wool. This mattress also comes with a zipper off top panel that allows you to easily modify the 5” of latex in the euro top. Total 11" Mattress Height and in King size with foundation about $3700 plus tax.

They use Dunlop Latex and claim that the 3" comfort layer is Talalay Latex. I am unsure of the validity of this statement. Does anyone know if this is true.

I looked at Foamorder.com this evening and am confused by their order page. I tried to duplicate either of these 100% Organic Nature's Cloud beds and am unable to. They have five firmness levels Soft (17-25 ILD), Medium (26-30 ILD), Firm (31-35 ILD), Extra Firm (36-42 ILD), and Hard (43-48 ILD) but no super soft layer 15 ILD. I looked at the Organic Natural Sense Mattresses www.foamorder.com/organic-mattress.php#wool_puddle_pad as I assume these would be the equivalent 100% organic mattress. What custom layering would be similar to the Nature's Cloud Euro Top or Plush Top? Also would 3" N25 Natural Sense®
3" N25 Natural Sense®
3" N28 Natural Sense®
3" N28 Natural Sense®
Royal Soft be worth it at $2934 no tax? What additions i.e. padding, sheets etc would you recommend? This price is still less than Jamestown Mattress' top of the line Nature's Cloud Euro Top.

I am going to skip the organic foundation hence saving $400 from the $3300 and $3700 (plush, euro top respectively) Jamestown Mattress price. I will use a non-organic solid wood slat foundation using two extra long twins.

Thanks. This website has helped me in buying my first bed. I originally was buying memory foam but now going with latex.
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