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14 Nov 2019 19:31
Replied by lorim on topic Microcoils an option in the Ultimate Hybrid?

Microcoils an option in the Ultimate Hybrid?


Marshmallowforme, here you go, hope it helps in your mattress search.

Saatva - this mattress was perfect when sleeping on my back, however, when sleeping on my side I would get hip and back pain as the bed was just too firm.  Tried a soft topper the company sent out, but it did not resolve the problem.  This was the only mattress that I've tried that I actually slept cool on. 

Level Sleep:  A zoned memory foam mattress.  I did not sleep well in any position on this mattress, in addition to back pain I had neck pain and never could find a pillow that worked this mattress.

Nectar:  Had lower back pain and woke up quite stiff on this mattress, and was at this point I realized that I just did not do well on memory foam.

Brentwood Home Oceano:  Experienced upper back and neck issues with this bed as it was just too soft.  Company sent out a firm topper and I have to say with the topper this mattress was great for about 2 months, then it felt like the topper broke down and the mattress was too soft again.

SleepEz:  All latex mattress with wool topper.  Tried every configuration possible with this bed, company was great helping out, but nothing seemed to work for very long.  Finally read somewhere that the toppers can cause problems for some, so I removed the topper and did start sleeping well on this mattress.  Had to send it back as it really didn't look right, or keep everything together correctly without the zipped topper.

Luma Slumber System:  Zoned coils with a latex topper encased in a fabric that does not restrict the feel of the latex at all.  So far I am quite happy with this mattress, had worried that the zoned coils might be too firm, but they are not.  I did not smell any off gassing due to the foam, nor when I sit or lay on the bed do I feel a noticeable difference between the zones.
28 Sep 2019 10:46
Replied by stmslpr on topic Lunazen (NOT compressed bed in box)

Lunazen (NOT compressed bed in box)


Thanks MFC! Continuing to do some more research.... I stumbled upon a company called Lunazen based out of Vancouver BC. They sell hybrid mattresses with 100 night trial but do not compress their mattress... kind of like Saatva i think. I was researching the potential negative effects on quality and durability compression into a box would have on a mattress foam with the bed in a box fad. I mean it would seem to make sense that compression would not be good for hybrids with coils at the very least. How true this is, i don't know.

Lunazen seem to have decent quality materials (Zen-M memory foam supposed 2 or 3 inch at top... 4lbs density, another 1" Ecotex soy foam supposedly 4lbs density followed by 8" bipocket coils supposedly 15.5 gauge and 1280 in a queen).

Main thing is they don't compress it which is making me think they might be a decent choice.

Has anyone heard of them, tried them and any thoughts? I don't see much about them on the internet other than google reviews and their own website reviews. Supposedly Bret the Hitman Hart endorses them.
26 Aug 2019 19:03
Replied by Phoenix on topic New to Group. New to Mattress buying

New to Group. New to Mattress buying

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi stmslpr,

Sorry to hear that the Talalay latex bed is not working out for you. The coil bed descriptions sound great, do you recall the brand name? What are the comfort layers for this coil mattress? It really makes a great difference when discussing any of these mattresses that we are able to get as much information about the specifications as possible, then it is much better to offer any guidance.

As far as other brands go, while I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own personal preferences).

That said, there are some threads on the mattresses you mentioned that you might find helpful here:

Avocado Mattress consumer experiences and questions thread
Winkbeds mattress consumer experiences and questions
Saatva mattresses consumer experiences and questions
Dreamcloud mattress search

Let us know if you have more questions.
23 Aug 2019 14:00
Replied by stmslpr on topic New to Group. New to Mattress buying

New to Group. New to Mattress buying

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi Phoenix, would just like your opinion on very firm beds. I had purchased a talalay latex bed recently and through a variety of different experimentation and trials i have a feeling that for whatever reason the latex seems to eventually succumb more and more (through the night) to the density of my torso and butt (and i think i sink a bit more than i'd like), yet is firm enough to keep my head and legs etc up thus really doing a number on, not only my low back but mid back too.

I have recently started to sleep directly on the carpeted floor and while not the most comfortable, my back is noticeably less stiff and sore. I am exchanging the 6" firm talalay core with a pocket spring coil system (European honeycomb nested pocket coils - steel, wrapped in polypropylene; a high performance, durable, breathable, moisture-wicking, non-toxic fabric Coil Counts: 1,484 Queen Size 1,908 King Size) in it's place and hope it feels better (old spring mattresses i have, while not as comfy, don't seem to "succumb" to my body as much).

However, I have some "firm" mattresses lined up in case the coil exchange experiment doesn't work out. Saatva (Firm or luxury firm), Winkbed, dreamcloud, avacado, purple etc. Some are innerspring, some are foam or hybrids. There's even one i'm eyeing called The "Hard Bed". Not sure if you've heard of it. Just wondering if you have an opinion on those beds (especially Saatva, Winkbed and Dreamcloud).

I've spent a fair chunk of change so far but chalking it up to a learning experience. But i do hope to get it "right" without to much more damage to the bank account. :) I'm not a big guy (5'9", 165-170lbs) so i didn't assume i'd need a very firm and unyielding mattress but it is looking like it's kind of trending that way. I used to mainly sleep on my stomach and still prefer to but and trying to do more side and back sleeping as per my physio's request. i would say i'll eventually become a combo sleeper with go to still being stomach.

22 Aug 2019 09:29
Having trouble finding a suitable mattress was created by fearful_jesuit

Having trouble finding a suitable mattress


Hi, I'm new to this forum and wanted to get some advice about finding a new mattress, as I'm feeling a little overwhelmed by my options and lack of knowledge.

First, a little about my body and sleep habits: I am fairly ectomorphic at 6'2" tall and 165 lbs. I tend to sleep on my side, but I've found that I fall asleep fastest on a firmer mattress. At the same time, after doing some research, I want to be cautious of getting too firm a mattress, as I don't want to put excess pressure on my hips or shoulders (I am an athlete in my 20s and haven't experienced this yet, but I realize that this could change as I get older).

I can give you an overview of some of my past mattress models and my thoughts on them. In high school, I used an Ikea mattress that I would rate as 7.5/10 firmness. I actually liked this mattress a lot, but I think the materials in it are probably lackluster, and at any rate I believe it has been discontinued. (It is at my parents' house so I don't know the exact model). In college, I used various dorm-issued mattresses, all of which I found a little on the soft side.

After college, the first mattress I bought was a 2017 Leesa mattress. I recently sold this because I found it had started to sag slightly in the middle after only 1.5 year of use, and I really hated the feeling of sinking into a "bowl" in the middle of the mattress. The materials of the Leesa were a layer of 2-in Avena foam (polyfoam) at 20-IFD 3.65-pcf, a layer of 2-in memory-foam at 9-IFD 3-pcf, and a layer of 6-in polyfoam 32-IFD 1.8-pcf. I suspect that the 3-pcf memory foam layer was the culprit in the middle sagging so quickly.

I've currently been mattress shopping, but I'm not really sure about what I should be looking for. On a friend's recommendation, I went to a reseller near me who sells factory and floor models at deeply discounted prices. There, I tried a Stearns and Foster "white label" memory foam mattress – it was really firm, which I liked, but after doing research on this forum it seems like Stearns and Foster is a brand that I should stay away from, especially since the retailer couldn't tell me about the specific materials used in the mattress. I next tried a Saatva Loom and Leaf mattress, which I really liked in terms of feel (nice and firm), but which seems to be a little less than ideal because it features a convoluted layer of 4 lb memory foam in combination with their 1.5 lb base layer that Phoenix has said is not especially high quality. I also tried a Nest Bedding Alexander medium hybrid mattress. I know that Nest Bedding is a trusted member here, which indicates their mattresses are of a high quality, but I think that the medium is a bit too soft for me. The reseller is, however, offering a great deal – about $750 for what is normally a $1299 mattress. Finally, I tried a Keetsa Tea Leaf Dream mattress, which felt really nice (about the same in comfort and firmness as the Saatva), but which I don't think I would consider because it is a Chinese made Zinus mattress and doesn't offer transparency about its make-up.

I was hoping to get help about what my next steps should be in searching for a mattress. I am in graduate school on a fairly humble stipend, so I would prefer to spend less than $1000 on a queen mattress, but I could splurge on up to a $1250 purchase. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
21 Aug 2019 10:47
Replied by NestHaven on topic Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options

Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Sure thing - sorry for the confusion. We originally had the former Hybrid Latex design last year (8" coil/Talalay latex). We tried a couple of latex swap-outs, in addition to needing to get the cover replaced. Again, Nest Bedding was great in working with us to try to get us situated. In the end, though, we couldn't get that mattress to work. It was better than many of the other brands that we tried (Saatva, Intellibed, Leesa, Serta, Brentwood Home, etc.), but we were still experiencing pain in our shoulder & hip points.

Knowing our mattress struggles, we were given this new Hybrid Latex mattress (the 6" coil/Dunlop latex/quilted foam version) as a wedding gift from a family member who liked theirs, and it fixed the issues that we had been having with previous mattresses. For us, the 1.5lb quilting foam does a really nice job of easing the pressure on our joints when we sleep on our sides. We wouldn't want anything denser, as then the mattress would likely become too stiff. It's "just right" as it is now. The great thing is that there's still plenty of support when we sleep on our backs or stomachs. And we haven't had an issue with the mattress being too warm, either. It stays temperature neutral.

Again, it's a really nice design. The other latex hybrids that we'd tried (the 8" coil/3" latex/cover types) were never quite comfortable on our shoulders & hips when sleeping on our sides. The Avocado mattress, for instance, felt like sleeping on a firm board.

So, needless to say, we're very happy with our Hybrid Latex mattress from Nest. And after a solid 9 months of use, it's holding up very well.
06 Aug 2019 16:13
Replied by marina10 on topic Want advice on extra firm dunlop hybrid

Want advice on extra firm dunlop hybrid


Thanks for your reply!
I currently own a Saatva but will return it soon. I've only tried NaturePedic EOS Classic in a showroom and it was one of my favorites. It was soft but I didn't feel like I was sinking in. Of course things might turn different over time but that was at least my initial impression.
You mentioned Simmons is a category leader in pocketed coils. Would you say I would sacrifice the quality of coils by buying from a mattress manufacturer whose expertise is more in latex? Or is coil quality more or less standardized?
06 Aug 2019 10:34 - 06 Aug 2019 10:38
Want advice on extra firm dunlop hybrid was created by marina10

Want advice on extra firm dunlop hybrid


I'm 5'3, 170lb female, back sleeper, sleep in the center of the bed, and I rarely move in my sleep.

I bought a Saatva Classic firm (hybrid), reading online that it is one of the firmest mattresses available. At first it felt firm but after a few days, my lower back started to get stressed and I had that sinking feeling.

I decided to return this mattress and started to go to different stores to try out and really find out what I liked. I realized any form of memory foam or hybrid with memory foam didn’t work for me. I mostly looked at innersprings and my favorite ended up being the Beautyrest Silver Extra Firm (BRS900-C), which is selling at around $800. My budget was actually slightly higher ~$1,500. However, I realized that when mattresses get expensive, mostly they add more foam on top of the mattresses which I hate. I just like extra firm coils with proper zoning, minimum foam, and tight-top, like sleeping on the floor on thick layers of blankets.

When I was trying out different mattresses, I realized that I liked the feel of latex. It felt very soft but also very supportive. So I started reading up and visited a few stores today. After trying out an all-latex and hybrid, I felt that hybrid offered better support. I found the Naturepedic EOS Classic (8” coils + 3” Dunlop 100% latex hybrid) extra firm coils and extra firm latex to be very comfortable.

That mattress is selling at $3000 (Queen) and I’m wondering if there’s a cheaper alternative (online or factory direct) that offers the same 100% Dunlop "extra firm (normal firm doesn’t work for me!)” and also extra firm coils- preferably somewhere I have a reasonable return option or showroom in LA.

Also, is there considerable coil technology difference between a latex manufacturer and a traditional bed manufacturer like Simmons? Maybe buying Beautyrest and putting a Dunlop latex topper is an option? I saw that SleepOnLatex offered a pretty reasonable 3” firm Dunlop topper option.

I would really appreciate any honest input. Thank you so much!!
21 Jul 2019 19:26 - 21 Jul 2019 19:31
Replied by Aus10sntx on topic Back pain, recovering from cancer surgery, need a bed ASAP!

Back pain, recovering from cancer surgery, need a bed ASAP!

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Thanks for writing me back Phoenix! Appreciate your kind words. Can't complain too much b/c I'm alive! Just want a mattress to help heal. Since my post I've done a bit more research.

Yes, it is always advisable to ask for the density / ILD information, so one can determine if the specifications have the right durability required.

I'll be reaching out to them for sure, but I did get a chance to visit Texas Mattress Makers - I drove out to Houston last Sunday. While I wish it was really worth the drive..I didn't find "THE mattress" and was underwhelmed by the one mattress I landed on there. I wanted a hybrid coil w/latex. The pricing was in line w/what Cantwell had quoted, however.
    -1" foam
    -2" 21 ILD copper infused latex
    -2" 24 ILD graphite infused latex
    -1" transition
    -8" micro coil
    -2" base layer
Ultimately this mattress didn't wow me and it felt a bit too firm for me particularly.

I also visited Denver Mattress locally and tried out their brand, which I happened to like the most. It was between a layered memory foam+coil OR a latex+coil. Finally when my husband tried them out this past weekend, surprisingly to me he didn't like the latex (even though we have all latex right now). Also surprisingly out of all mattresses he tried, he liked the exact same memory foam+coil.
Could you see any weak links in this mattress? $1200
Quilt Layers:
-knit ticking
-1" anti-microbial Super soft EF form
-1 1/2" Anti-Microbial 1.8lb High Density EF Convoluted Foam
-Rayon Fire Barrier

Comfort Layers:
-2" 4lb Gel/Visco Memory Foam
-1" 2lb High density luxury plush EF Foam
-1 Flex Net Insulator

Support System:

-BOSS (Balanced Orthopedic Sleep System)
-750 alternating checkboard coils for queen (we'd have more with king)
-14.5 gauge twice tempered steel

I think this seems to be a good solid choice based on what I've read on your site. My hesitation is that I did read that folks have complained about durability with Denver mattress and seeing impressions sooner than expected. I also wasn't 100% in love with the mattress. It felt really good to both of us but I felt so much better on the mattress in San Antonio, I just know my husband doesn't want to spend $3k.
I'd rather us start with a mattress from an online company that we can try out and then return if we don't like it.

I was about to order the Saatva as I figured we could try this out, Sleep Like the Dead gave it the top pick based on my questionnaire and overall good scoring -
But then I did read a lot of the comments/reviews on your page and once again, hesitated to pull the trigger.
I did like that it was a coil on coil, DID NOT come wrapped up in a box (I do have to wonder how this impacts the mattress w/coils being tightly boxed up for shipping), and the lumbar support enhancement in the bed as that's what has been hurting me a lot.

I'm ultimately thinking purchasing online would be the best option at this point, trying out a mattress based on the materials and what we've tested out so far, and go with a company that allows returns.

Could you help advise to any other companies you think may be a solid option? Definitely want a coil hybrid. Looking at:

Winkbeds - $1799
Like the coil on coil, and the heat dispersing technology
based on your previous post, the 2" 1.5lb poly foam concerns me as my husband is 220lbs
I have not found the rest of the densities and size of layers.

- $1599
Originally looked at latex hybrid, but now considering Signature Hybrid. Do like the ability to have one side firmer than the other.
    -.25" 4 lb. Gel Infused Memory Foam & Super Soft Quilted Thermic Phase Change Fabric
    -3" 3.5 lb. Medium TitanChill Endurance Foam®
    -1" 3 lb. SmartFlow Support Foam
    -8" Quantum Edge Pocketed Support Coils
    -1" 3 lb. Base Support Foam

Ghostbed Flex Hybrid $1785
I do like the cooling aspect of this for my husband. That's why I was leaning towards latex initially.
Do you know the densities of this bed? Any weak links? Concerns about it being rolled and shipped in a box?
    -Cooling Cover
    -1” of Cooling Fiber
    -1” of Gel Memory Foam
    -1" Gel Memory Foam
    -1” gel-infused Memory Foam -absorbs and dissipates body heat as fresh air passes through the foam.
    -1” Ghost Flex Soft Transition Foam
    -soft transition foam
    -8.5" Individually Wrapped & Reinforced Support Coils — Additionally, the coils near the edge of GhostBed Flex are specially reinforced for better support — so you can sit on the edge of your bed without sliding off.
    -1" High Density Support Foam

Thank you in advance for any help you have!
08 Jul 2019 06:45
Replied by on topic How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***

How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi Phoenix,

I have found the mattress I want (Spinks & Co Bristol Model) but I don't appreciate the price 4000.00. I'm looking to learn what might feel similar to this bed, perhaps the Saatva at 1500.00? Any help would be appreciated!
29 Jun 2019 14:24 - 29 Jun 2019 14:29
Replied by azaz123 on topic Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Category: General Mattresses Questions

I'm 5'10" 160lbs

Did try them on in a store where they had a bunch of online mattresses for display. Both were about a couple weeks old and not super broken in. The firm felt the way I a generic mattressfirm "firm" mattress would feel. The luxury firm was softer and had a little bit of sinking to it. Both were comfortable... I have chronic lower back issues which were exacerbated by a horrible quality foam mattress (Zinus). Tossing it and decided on the Saatva. I was under the impression a firm mattress would solve my problems.

The only discrepancy is the online reviews - a lot people consistently mentioning the luxury firm was too firm. I'm like wtf.. not even close per my experience. However, medium firm is "supposed" to be the best for back pain is what people say. Therefore, I'm worried that I might have issues if I were to pick a firm mattress (I'm used to sleeping on firm mattresses and this seemed firmer than usual) based on reviews/the general "firm isn't the solution for back pain" thought process. On the other hand, the luxury firm was pretty comfortable and not firm to me by any means - worried if I were to pick this I might sink in and make my back pain worse particularly given my horrible experience with an all foam cheap Zinus mattress.

ANY help would be much appreciated. Thanks!
29 Jun 2019 11:31
Replied by Sensei on topic Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hey azaz123,

Welcome to the mattress forum :).

Are you referencing the firm and the luxury firm for the Saatva Classic Mattress? How were you able to try them? Did you sleep a full night on both, or just lay down for a little while. What is your BMI?

Here is a Saatva thread with some posts from Phoenix and consumer posts.

28 Jun 2019 05:10
Replied by azaz123 on topic Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Deciding between The Saatva Firm and Luxury firm. Have chronic back pain. Wondering if the luxury foam has enough support. Fortunate enough to have been able to try both and both were comfortable.
31 May 2019 18:57
Replied by anotherscott on topic My Luxi experience and hybrid mattress questions

My Luxi experience and hybrid mattress questions

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Sorry to say, I've had a similar experience to the others reported above. I've had three different reps (Samantha, Danny, Laura) each confirm to me that I was eligible for return/refund, each leaving me expecting to hear from someone about processing the return/refund, and each then disappearing. No response to emails for months at a time, no phone call answered. This has been going on since December 2017 (yes, 2017!), with the last contact from them this past February. It hadn't occurred to me until now to check and see what people here may have been saying, and it's oddly both reassuring and disappointing to see I am not alone. Since others' posting here actually seems to have gotten David's attention, this is now my best hope that I'll actually hear back from someone to resolve this.

It's a real shame, because while it was not quite the right mattress for us, it was one of the better ones we'd tried, with a surprising amount of bounce for a non-spring mattress, and no smell, and of course the benefit of a certain amount of customizability. But for all intents and purposes, I'd have to call this a non-returnable mattress, unless maybe someone knows to post here and keep their fingers crossed.

BTW, the one that finally made both of us happy was Saatva. It took us a while to find it. But along the way, at least everyone other than Luxi processed the return and refund promptly.
01 May 2019 13:41
Replied by Sensei on topic 7lb Memory Foam topper

7lb Memory Foam topper

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hey Pitcli.

I hear ya. It's a fair point to make, and it's an interesting point. For many years IMO...Tempurpedic was the one and only one true "brand" in the mattress industry. Nobody walks in a retailer anywhere and says "I'm` looking for a Simmons...or Serta...or Sealy..never happens..ok maybe not 100% but you get it. So I can totally see how one can view it Tempur and everything else.

Interestingly, consumers now do ask about the online advertised Casper, Purple, Leesa, Ghostbed, T&N, Saatva, etc.. better brand value than Three S's brands.

Thanks for the post and input. It's all good.

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