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Today 19:26 - Today 19:31
Replied by Aus10sntx on topic Back pain, recovering from cancer surgery, need a bed ASAP!

Back pain, recovering from cancer surgery, need a bed ASAP!

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Thanks for writing me back Phoenix! Appreciate your kind words. Can't complain too much b/c I'm alive! Just want a mattress to help heal. Since my post I've done a bit more research.

Yes, it is always advisable to ask for the density / ILD information, so one can determine if the specifications have the right durability required.

I'll be reaching out to them for sure, but I did get a chance to visit Texas Mattress Makers - I drove out to Houston last Sunday. While I wish it was really worth the drive..I didn't find "THE mattress" and was underwhelmed by the one mattress I landed on there. I wanted a hybrid coil w/latex. The pricing was in line w/what Cantwell had quoted, however.
    -1" foam
    -2" 21 ILD copper infused latex
    -2" 24 ILD graphite infused latex
    -1" transition
    -8" micro coil
    -2" base layer
Ultimately this mattress didn't wow me and it felt a bit too firm for me particularly.

I also visited Denver Mattress locally and tried out their brand, which I happened to like the most. It was between a layered memory foam+coil OR a latex+coil. Finally when my husband tried them out this past weekend, surprisingly to me he didn't like the latex (even though we have all latex right now). Also surprisingly out of all mattresses he tried, he liked the exact same memory foam+coil.
Could you see any weak links in this mattress? $1200
Quilt Layers:
-knit ticking
-1" anti-microbial Super soft EF form
-1 1/2" Anti-Microbial 1.8lb High Density EF Convoluted Foam
-Rayon Fire Barrier

Comfort Layers:
-2" 4lb Gel/Visco Memory Foam
-1" 2lb High density luxury plush EF Foam
-1 Flex Net Insulator

Support System:

-BOSS (Balanced Orthopedic Sleep System)
-750 alternating checkboard coils for queen (we'd have more with king)
-14.5 gauge twice tempered steel

I think this seems to be a good solid choice based on what I've read on your site. My hesitation is that I did read that folks have complained about durability with Denver mattress and seeing impressions sooner than expected. I also wasn't 100% in love with the mattress. It felt really good to both of us but I felt so much better on the mattress in San Antonio, I just know my husband doesn't want to spend $3k.
I'd rather us start with a mattress from an online company that we can try out and then return if we don't like it.

I was about to order the Saatva as I figured we could try this out, Sleep Like the Dead gave it the top pick based on my questionnaire and overall good scoring -
But then I did read a lot of the comments/reviews on your page and once again, hesitated to pull the trigger.
I did like that it was a coil on coil, DID NOT come wrapped up in a box (I do have to wonder how this impacts the mattress w/coils being tightly boxed up for shipping), and the lumbar support enhancement in the bed as that's what has been hurting me a lot.

I'm ultimately thinking purchasing online would be the best option at this point, trying out a mattress based on the materials and what we've tested out so far, and go with a company that allows returns.

Could you help advise to any other companies you think may be a solid option? Definitely want a coil hybrid. Looking at:

Winkbeds - $1799
Like the coil on coil, and the heat dispersing technology
based on your previous post, the 2" 1.5lb poly foam concerns me as my husband is 220lbs
I have not found the rest of the densities and size of layers.

- $1599
Originally looked at latex hybrid, but now considering Signature Hybrid. Do like the ability to have one side firmer than the other.
    -.25" 4 lb. Gel Infused Memory Foam & Super Soft Quilted Thermic Phase Change Fabric
    -3" 3.5 lb. Medium TitanChill Endurance Foam®
    -1" 3 lb. SmartFlow Support Foam
    -8" Quantum Edge Pocketed Support Coils
    -1" 3 lb. Base Support Foam

Ghostbed Flex Hybrid $1785
I do like the cooling aspect of this for my husband. That's why I was leaning towards latex initially.
Do you know the densities of this bed? Any weak links? Concerns about it being rolled and shipped in a box?
    -Cooling Cover
    -1” of Cooling Fiber
    -1” of Gel Memory Foam
    -1" Gel Memory Foam
    -1” gel-infused Memory Foam -absorbs and dissipates body heat as fresh air passes through the foam.
    -1” Ghost Flex Soft Transition Foam
    -soft transition foam
    -8.5" Individually Wrapped & Reinforced Support Coils — Additionally, the coils near the edge of GhostBed Flex are specially reinforced for better support — so you can sit on the edge of your bed without sliding off.
    -1" High Density Support Foam

Thank you in advance for any help you have!
08 Jul 2019 06:45
Replied by on topic How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***

How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hi Phoenix,

I have found the mattress I want (Spinks & Co Bristol Model) but I don't appreciate the price 4000.00. I'm looking to learn what might feel similar to this bed, perhaps the Saatva at 1500.00? Any help would be appreciated!
29 Jun 2019 14:24 - 29 Jun 2019 14:29
Replied by azaz123 on topic Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Category: General Mattresses Questions

I'm 5'10" 160lbs

Did try them on in a store where they had a bunch of online mattresses for display. Both were about a couple weeks old and not super broken in. The firm felt the way I a generic mattressfirm "firm" mattress would feel. The luxury firm was softer and had a little bit of sinking to it. Both were comfortable... I have chronic lower back issues which were exacerbated by a horrible quality foam mattress (Zinus). Tossing it and decided on the Saatva. I was under the impression a firm mattress would solve my problems.

The only discrepancy is the online reviews - a lot people consistently mentioning the luxury firm was too firm. I'm like wtf.. not even close per my experience. However, medium firm is "supposed" to be the best for back pain is what people say. Therefore, I'm worried that I might have issues if I were to pick a firm mattress (I'm used to sleeping on firm mattresses and this seemed firmer than usual) based on reviews/the general "firm isn't the solution for back pain" thought process. On the other hand, the luxury firm was pretty comfortable and not firm to me by any means - worried if I were to pick this I might sink in and make my back pain worse particularly given my horrible experience with an all foam cheap Zinus mattress.

ANY help would be much appreciated. Thanks!
29 Jun 2019 11:31
Replied by Sensei on topic Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hey azaz123,

Welcome to the mattress forum :).

Are you referencing the firm and the luxury firm for the Saatva Classic Mattress? How were you able to try them? Did you sleep a full night on both, or just lay down for a little while. What is your BMI?

Here is a Saatva thread with some posts from Phoenix and consumer posts.

28 Jun 2019 05:10
Replied by azaz123 on topic Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Major Mattress Manufacturers - Top 20

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Deciding between The Saatva Firm and Luxury firm. Have chronic back pain. Wondering if the luxury foam has enough support. Fortunate enough to have been able to try both and both were comfortable.
31 May 2019 18:57
Replied by anotherscott on topic My Luxi experience and hybrid mattress questions

My Luxi experience and hybrid mattress questions

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Sorry to say, I've had a similar experience to the others reported above. I've had three different reps (Samantha, Danny, Laura) each confirm to me that I was eligible for return/refund, each leaving me expecting to hear from someone about processing the return/refund, and each then disappearing. No response to emails for months at a time, no phone call answered. This has been going on since December 2017 (yes, 2017!), with the last contact from them this past February. It hadn't occurred to me until now to check and see what people here may have been saying, and it's oddly both reassuring and disappointing to see I am not alone. Since others' posting here actually seems to have gotten David's attention, this is now my best hope that I'll actually hear back from someone to resolve this.

It's a real shame, because while it was not quite the right mattress for us, it was one of the better ones we'd tried, with a surprising amount of bounce for a non-spring mattress, and no smell, and of course the benefit of a certain amount of customizability. But for all intents and purposes, I'd have to call this a non-returnable mattress, unless maybe someone knows to post here and keep their fingers crossed.

BTW, the one that finally made both of us happy was Saatva. It took us a while to find it. But along the way, at least everyone other than Luxi processed the return and refund promptly.
01 May 2019 13:41
Replied by Sensei on topic 7lb Memory Foam topper

7lb Memory Foam topper

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hey Pitcli.

I hear ya. It's a fair point to make, and it's an interesting point. For many years IMO...Tempurpedic was the one and only one true "brand" in the mattress industry. Nobody walks in a retailer anywhere and says "I'm` looking for a Simmons...or Serta...or Sealy..never happens..ok maybe not 100% but you get it. So I can totally see how one can view it Tempur and everything else.

Interestingly, consumers now do ask about the online advertised Casper, Purple, Leesa, Ghostbed, T&N, Saatva, etc.. better brand value than Three S's brands.

Thanks for the post and input. It's all good.

27 Apr 2019 17:33
Replied by Sensei on topic Need Help Choosing "Bed In Box" Mattress

Need Help Choosing "Bed In Box" Mattress

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hey gmck,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Thanks for the post and the questions. Generally speaking, we are also noticing that many companies are moving to some lower densities. Regarding the Loom and Leaf and Ghostbed Luxe, Ghostbed is one of our newest trusted members and as you see on the Ghostbed TMU page - Ghostbed Luxe Specs , this product uses very high-quality specs, this has been a very successful product introduction with very low return rates, per my discussion with the Ghostbed CEO.

Saatva/Loom&Leaf/Zenhaven is certainly a very good company and has built a solid e-commerce business. My issue with Loom is they use contract manufacturers to make their mattresses in different regions of the country. Of course, they say all these contractors use the "same" specs and it is all "tightly controlled" but the reality is quite different. I do like that L&L does give a pretty detailed spec listing on their website. Although I am a little dubious about the Our cooling gel spinal panel, a panel of laminated gel does not help a person sleep cooler, there is simply no evidence of this, mostly the evidence is the opposite and more heat is retained....but, when you "feel" gel in a store it feels cooler, the same way a metal spoon feels cooler than a plastic spoon.

Also for a little clarification, I don't agree that Nest Bedding is choosing weaker layers, as you can see from this Phoenix post #6 , where the Nest CEO gives a clear description of the Alexander Signature.

Thank you again for your post, and please let us know if you have any more questions.

10 Apr 2019 19:32
mattress confusion, especially re: memory foam was created by lizzy3434

mattress confusion, especially re: memory foam



For years I have slept on a Stearns and Foster purchased 17 years ago. When my back started to hurt I decided to buy a new mattress and chose a Saatva because it was recommended by a friend. The Luxury Firm model was too soft; my back was actually worse. So I went to a brick and mortar store and purchased a very high end innerspring by Chattam and Wells. The first night I had to leave the room when I started to have respiratory problems. I read up on off gassing and started to air it out. After two weeks it still had a strange odor; I couldn't sleep in it. I called the manufacturer who suggested they send out a new bed. They aired the mattress out before sending. Although it did not have a super strong odor, the fumes in the mattress continued and I could not tolerate it. Again, I aired it out. After two more weeks, I still couldn't tolerate it. I was able to return it but am now paralyzed and indecisive about what to do next. I spoke with the owner of a family owned mattress store in a nearby town. He suggested I purchase a Chittenden and Eastman he says he has custom made. He said the problem was likely memory foam in the Chattam and Wells. The contents say 44% polyurethane; he says some of that could be memory foam and that most problems like mine, in his experience, are reactions to memory foam. Is this a thing? He mentioned fire retardants as well. I really want an innerspring, maybe a hybrid (rather than switching to latex) but I don't want another experience with respiratory issues. The Saatva, btw, was fine--no off gassing. And I am currently sleeping in my son's room on a Tuft and Needle. I have never been "allergic" to a mattress before so this is confusing. So sorry for the many details and length. Thanks for any help with this dilemma.
12 Mar 2019 12:03
Replied by Sensei on topic Zenhaven Latex Mattress

Zenhaven Latex Mattress

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hey sweetandsourkiwi,

Ah yes, Everton, you are correct it certainly depends on where one is located. It's a good business model, but one of the risks of using multiple factories/companies is quality control/inconsistencies. I actually believe Saatva does a very good job with this, but we do hear about the issues, if you will.

I think for some reason I thought you were from Northeast region, but I was just confused, I am sure. ..Re: Eclipse mfg.

03 Mar 2019 15:16
Replied by lotus14 on topic Zenhaven Mattress

Zenhaven Foundation

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Having owned, and returned, a Zenhaven mattress I can say that it is very well made, great warranty, and SAATVA is a great company to work with.

The problem I had with the Zenhaven is that the plush side is not very plush. Barely softer than the firm side.

I am a 5'7" 142 lb side sleeper and the Zenhaven gave me a lot of shoulder pain.

If you like a firmer latex mattress I doubt you'll find a better one.
13 Feb 2019 14:10
Replied by NestHaven on topic Zenhaven Mattress

Zenhaven Foundation

Category: General Mattresses Questions

My pleasure - and yes, we have learned quite a bit. Like you, we've learned probably far more than we ever wanted to about mattresses. Up until about almost two years ago, we were able to walk in, simply pick out a mattress, and be done with it. That how it was for every other mattress that we've each owned until we needed to get a new mattress a couple of years ago. And then it became mattress shopping hell. Again, good to be free of it.

Here are the mattresses that we tried:

1. Brentwood Home Sequoia (from Costco): A latex hybrid mattress that felt like sleeping on concrete. Was very firm, my wife felt like she was on fire with her fibromyalgia constantly, and I woke up sore all over, too. We tried it for a month - then sent it back.

2. Brentwood Home Coronado (from Costco): A gel hybrid mattress that was a tad softer, but not by much. Still pretty firm, and this one slept rather warm. We slept on it for about a month as well before sending it back. We couldn't get comfortable on this one, either.

3. Saatva - Luxury Firm (online): Similar to the Brentwood Home Sequoia, this one felt like sleping on concrete, too. My wife was constantly flared up, and neither of us slept well. Tried it for a month - then sent it back.

4. Saatva - Plush (online): Thinking that the Luxury Firm was too firm, we opted for the Plush version. This one felt weirdly firm yet overly squishy, too. Neither of us got comfortable, and it felt like we were sinking in too much - only then to feel like we were sleeping on a wood board. Tried it for a month as well, then sent it back.

5. Aireloom Hybrid - Firm (store): Since our online luck hadn't work, we went back to the traditional route and purchased an Aireloom (which was our previous mattress of 10 year) that was supposedly firm, but felt way too soft. It knocked my back out to the point that I needed to go to a chiropractor - not enough support. We sent this one back within a week.

6. Serta Perfect Sleeper - Super Pillowtop (store): Stuck with having to exchange our Aireloom mattress for something else at the store, we opted for this one. It was a gel hybrid and felt fine in the store, having spent a good 30-45 minutes on it. However, when we got ours at home, it proved to be a bit firm and never really broke in. Since we couldn't exchange anymore, we gave this about 8 months. But since our sleep continued to deteriorate, we went back looking for a new mattress.

7. Leesa (online): We ordered the Leesa after trying it out in a store and reading all of the good reviews on it. Once we got it in, though, it stunk of rotten fish. My wife is sensitive to smells, too, so this wasn't going to work. We tried letting it air out for a couple of weeks, but the smell never dissipated. Since the mattress itself was so-so comfort-wise, we sent it back.

8. Intellibed (online): Based on all the issues we were having, our chiropractor recommended this bed - saying that the gel matrix would be a perfect fit for us. Unfortunately, it was quite the opposite. Perhaps because we are on the lighter-weight side, the gel matrix didn't seem to collapse enough to give us proper contouring for our shoulders and hips. As a result, it felt like we were sleeping on a rock. We toughed it out for a month, then ended up sleeping on our old guest bed - and sent the Intellibed back as well.

9. Nest Bedding (store): Not wanting to roll the dice again on an online purchase, we tried out Nest Bedding's previous Hybrid Latex mattress (the one with the Talalay latex and wool cover). We liked the 28ILD medium version in the store, and pushed a Queen for our master bedroom and a Full for our guest bedroom. We had some issues get the feel right with these mattresses. The Full felt firmer than the Queen, although the set up was the same. Even the Queen was a bit too firm. We tried swapping out latex layers to improve the comfort level, but couldn't get it to work. We even had the mattress cover replaced on our Queen mattress, but that only made it firmer. Nest Bedding's customer service team was great in trying to help us. We gave both mattresses 90 days to break in, but we couldn't get comfortable enough - our shoulders hurt, even with softer comfort layers. We resolved that the mattress didn't work for us, and Nest Bedding provided a refund.

10. Avocado Mattress (online): At the recommendation of a few friends (plus stellar reviews online), we decided to give the Avocado Pillowtop mattress a try. This was one of the most uncomfortable mattresses that we tried. The zoned coils (firmer in the middle) did not work for us. Our backs felt bowed in the bed. And even with the pillowtop, it was a really firm mattress. We couldn't get comfortable - and sent it back after a month.

11. Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex (store): This mattress finally proved to be a winner for us. Right away, when we tested it out in the store, we noticed the improvements over the previous version. The EcoFlex quilting provided more contouring support than the previous wool cover did, and it struck a perfect balance between supporting our shoulders/hips and giving us plenty of back support. We didn't need to adjust anything with this mattress - and our sleep improved as soon as we started sleeping on this mattress. Sure, it needed a little bit to break in. But even out of the box, it's been better than anything else we've tried. It's like the mattresses we used to buy over the years - it simply works right out of the gate. The combination of the EcoFlex foam, the Dunlop latex, and the non-zoned coils works perfectly for us. And no sleeping hot in it, either.

So, that's been our journey. Again, after almost two years of miserable sleep, we're so glad to be in our Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex mattress. They've hit the nail on the head with that design, indeed, in our opinion.

Hope that helps, and happy to answer any other questions that you may have.....
12 Feb 2019 08:18
Replied by Sensei on topic Torn between two latex mattress Manufacturers (Zenhaven vs Foam Sweet Foam)

Torn between two latex mattress Manufacturers (Zenhaven vs Foam Sweet Foam)

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hey sweetandsourkiwi,

I just wanted to comment that I am glad to hear ZH customer service is so good, Saatva (owner Zenhaven) is a very good company that has built a good business model. I know this TMU suggestion is to buy foundation from the manufacturer, but this is industry standard as traditional manufacturers always tied warranties to this practice. As the online bedding business continues to grow at such a fast pace, I think TMU's recommendations will continue to change.

15 Dec 2018 14:29
Replied by Phoenix on topic Mattresses - Introduction

Mattresses - Introduction

Category: General Mattresses Questions


Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

I've been researching the Saatva mattress but have now been dismayed by claims of false reviews.

I certainly understand your “dismay” in putting too much stock in reviews and attempting to discriminate between fake and legitimate ones. While legitimate reviews can offer some useful insights, as with many things, the process has been hijacked to a large extent by those with vested interests which are manipulating and using it as a marketing tool. Generally, other people's experiences won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ), and I recommend you avoid considering reviews as any sort of a reliable indicator of the appropriateness of any particular product for your needs.

I'm in search of a mattress that is similar to what my wife and I experienced at a Wyndham Resort. The mattress was a Beauty Rest Recharge (I believe made by Simmons). I wanted to know what you know of this mattress.

Beauty Rest Recharge is a Euro Top Firm Mattress manufactured by Simmonds using 8” of Pocket Coils and Memory Foams. Simmons doesn't disclose meaningful information about the quality of their materials except in generic terms so you couldn't make quality or value comparisons even if you find something that "feels" similar. With lower quality materials that soften or break down more quickly, the similarity in how they feel would also not be consistent over time. You can read a little more about trying to "match" another mattress in post #4 here but generally speaking you

“Hotel mattresses” tend to be lower quality and value than the consumer mattresses made by the same manufacturer in the same price range and more basic versions of the retails products that many mattress companies offer (which isn’t a good thing). One of the "secrets" to many hotel mattress is that they usually use a bedding package that includes a mattress pad or topper that is a big part of how the mattress feels and can also add to the durability of the mattress (replacing a mattress pad or topper can be less costly than replacing a whole mattress because a mattress or sleeping system will usually soften or break down from the top down). In many cases, the more subjective short-term experience of sleeping at a hotel is an improvement over the mattress that people sleep on regularly and this often "translates" into the perception that hotel mattresses are better than they are. They are a frequent source of buyer's remorse. They tend to be firmer products using softer “top-of-bed” materials to create extra plushness. There’s more good information about hotel mattresses in post #3 here .

I generally advise against the major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta, as they all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors. This lower quality material will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay, which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

The first suggestion I would have is to make sure you have read Mattress Shopping Tutorial here and the posts it links to which have all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices. It will also (hopefully) help you avoid most of the worst choices such as the chain stores who generally know little about the mattresses they sell (except the marketing stories and techniques they are trained to use) and major brands who either don't disclose the quality of the materials in their mattresses or have poor value compared to mattresses that use similar or higher quality materials made by smaller local or regional manufacturers that are either sold factory direct or through better sleep shops.

Going through the information provided will most likely help with the “reset” process in looking for a mattress that is suitable. Please feel free to get back with any questions you may have.

14 Dec 2018 13:46
Replied by 4RASM on topic Mattresses - Introduction

Mattresses - Introduction

Category: General Mattresses Questions

Hello. I'm in search of a mattress that is similar to what my wife and I experienced at a Wyndham Resort. The mattress was a Beauty Rest Recharge (I believe made by Simmons). I wanted to know what you know of this mattress. I've been researching the Saatva mattress but have now been dismayed by claims of false reviews. They seem to have a very high approval rate. Thanks for your insight.

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