>
×

Advanced Search

Search by Keyword
Search by User Name
×

Search Options

Find Posts from
Sort Results by
Search at a specific date
Jump to Result Number
Search in Categories
×

Search Results

Searched for: Select Foam Grandis
13 Apr 2017 20:10
Hi dpastor,

So, the question is - are there any fantastic beds that aren't more highly recommended because they are overpriced?


There’s a bit more about "ultra premium" (I.e., more expensive) mattresses in post #2 here and post #2 here and post #2 here . Most of them will have dealer locators located on their web sites. There are also some "super premium" mattresses that use innersprings and natural fibers in their construction ... some of which can go well into mid 5 figures. These include manufacturers such as VI Springs ... Hastens ... Savoir ... Relyon ... and Hypnos.

The better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the New York City are listed in post #2 here . Some of these retailers offer mattresses in the “ultra premium” range that you asked about. I don’t normally list retailers who only offer very high priced items on these lists, as they don’t usually represent the best values, so you’ll have to perform specific searches for any of the “ultra premium” brands on the web sites I linked to previously.

Phoenix
15 Feb 2017 14:00
Hi prepballfan,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

Just wondering?? I bought a grandis from them last year and me and my wife love it. Was trying to contact them about some questions and looks as if they went under???

Unfortunately, I believe Select Foam is no longer in business. They were removed as a site member some time ago (Dec 2015). There is more information about this and Select Foam here . An Admin Dissolution For Annual Report was filed Feb. 8, 2017, by the State of Florida, which means that the corporation has failed to pay their annual corporate fee to the State of Florida to remain active, so the State of Florida no longer deems them active and the only official business they can conduct is to wind down their affairs.

Phoenix
15 Feb 2017 11:43
Just wondering?? I bought a grandis from them last year and me and my wife love it. Was trying to contact them about some questions and looks as if they went under???
06 Jan 2017 12:18
Hi damonmcm70,

And just as a closing note, I'm considering replacing this with a Vi Spring entry level mattress.

Vi-Spring certainly makes some exceptionally high quality hand built and tufted mattresses that uses high quality materials and components (pocket coils and natural fibers) but as you probably know they are in a much more premium budget range than many other mattresses that also use natural materials. There is more about Vi Spring and other "ultra premium" mattresses in post #2 here and post #2 here and post #2 here may also be of interest as well but I would be very careful to differentiate how you feel "about" a Vi Spring and how you feel "on" a Vi Spring. There are certainly cases where a mattress in this budget range may be "worth it" for a particular person that isn't price sensitive and that has specific criteria that aren't available in lower budget ranges but this would be unusual and in general I would need a compelling reason that clearly indicated there was "enough" of a difference in "real life" compared to many other mattresses that may be just as suitable in terms of comfort and PPP, just as durable, and that are in much lower budget ranges to justify the higher cost.

With that being said… I should also mention that the most knowledgeable people I know and have talked with about "super premium" brands (including some who have worked at some of them or toured their factories) have always spoken highly of VI Spring and tend to rate them either among the best or often the best of the super premium fiber/innerspring brands.

Phoenix
26 Dec 2016 10:17
Hi Gman52,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

I’ll do my best to answer your questions, which cover a wide range of topics, without getting too far “down the rabbit hole”, as much of what you’re asking is subjective and not related to specific questions about a particular mattress you’re considering.

Is this the same for the mattress industry and companies that upcharge for “certified organic latex”? Is this a new and improved marketing gimmick for the internet age so they can charge more for those mattresses?

A certified organic mattress is not a “marketing gimmick”, but something that is in fact tangible and real. Whether or not a product that has this certification (and the extra cost associated with obtaining and maintaining this certification) has any value to you is something you’d have to decide based upon your own personal value equation . You can often find products using the exact same or similar materials that haven't gone through the process of becoming organically certified at more reasonable prices.

To help you learn a bit about organic certifications and what they actually encompass, I discuss that most people that are looking for an "organic" mattress or materials are usually concerned more with "safety" than whether the materials have an actual organic certification and they usually aren't aware that an organic certification isn't the same thing as a safety certification. There is more information about the three different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications such as Oeko-tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, C2C, and CertiPUR-US in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and there are also some comments in post #42 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you for environmental, social, or personal reasons or whether a "safety" certification is enough.

All the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will also have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold or C2C and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex (regardless of whether it is synthetic, natural, or blended) to be a very "safe" material in terms of harmful substances and VOC's (offgassing). Any type or blend of latex will also be a very durable material relative to other types of foam such as memory foam or polyfoam as well.

With latex the benefits of an organic certification can be exaggerated, and in many cases false claims of a certification (greenwashing) can be based on misleading or inaccurate information and are often used as a justification to charge much more for a mattress, compared to other similar mattresses that would be just as suitable and just as safe but are in much lower budget ranges. The impetus is upon you to become educated about these certifications and determine what “carries the most weight” for your own personal consideration.

In my searches for a 100% all latex mattresses with wool/cotton cover I’ve come across a wide range of prices for what I perceive to be equally made mattresses based on size, materials used, number of latex layers, overall mattress height etc. (Savvy Rest Unity Pillowtop 12” thick in king - $5349, Plush Beds 12” Botanical Bliss and Cozy Pure 12” Comfort Zone, both in king – both approximately $3000). Is the Savvy mattress really worth a $2300 mark up?

Again, that comes down to your own careful and personal evaluation of each product and company. All three of these brands use good quality materials, but all three are slightly different in construction and source their latex from a few different sources. The Savvy Rest you mentioned uses a separate pillowtop called the Unity Pillowtop for the upper Talalay latex layer (in a totally separate encasement) from Radium that is Cradle to Cradle Gold certified. Their Dunlop (GOLS certified) comes in 3” cores (instead of 3” pieces sliced from 6” cores) and it’s a little more configurable than the other two companies you mentioned, for a total of 12” of latex. The Plush Beds uses a 6” Dunlop core (GOLS certified) with two Talalay layers on top of that from Talalay Global (Oeko-Tex certified), for a total of 11” of latex. All of these layers are contained in a single mattress. The Cozy Pure uses all Dunlop latex (GOLS certified) with a 6” core, 3” transition layer and 2” of convoluted latex on top of that. This is all contained within a single mattress, that is made so that it can be flipped should you desire a firmer sleeping surface. All three mattresses use GOTS certified cotton for their covers and use wool to pass FR regulations.

While the quality of the componentry in all of the mattress you mentioned is certainly quite high, as you mentioned the Savvy Rest certainly falls into a bit of a “higher-end” price range, and you may be able to find some options online that provide a bit better value for the same or very similar products. You can make "value" comparisons between mattresses based on suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well) which in this case would be comparable since they are all latex mattresses, along with all the other parts (including pricing) of your personal value equation that are most important to you. This link to the site members who also offer latex configurable mattresses could be a good place to consider starting with mattress comparisons (Cozy Pure is a member of our site, which means that I do think highly of them).

All the blogs and all the forums and, I’m sorry to say, even your website says ‘a pure 100% latex mattress is very expensive’.

I don’t know why you would be "sorry" to mention this, as it is true that good latex foam is the most expensive foam to manufacture, whether it is blended synthetic, natural, Dunlop or Talalay.

How is a consumer to know what that means? Very expensive is a relative term but we as consumers don’t have a starting point for what a 100% all latex mattress should cost in various sizes and thicknesses and to know whether we are paying more than we should. I’m not looking for exact numbers because that is impossible, but a general guideline would help.

This is of course, as you mentioned, an impossible question to answer. There is no way to tell you what you “should” pay for a product, nor is the purpose of this forum to maintain a list of current pricing for the thousands of variations of latex mattresses available at any given point of time (which would be an impossibility due to the ever changing landscape of configurations or fluctuation market prices of raw latex). Even manufacturers have no set price for what latex “should” cost them from suppliers, as this can vary dramatically with the availability of the product which can be impacted by many things, including weather and raw material availability.

In the end, it is up to you to do a bit of your own personal research with the tools I provide here to gain a bit of a basic understanding of the products you’re considering, and in your case the differences between certifications and a determination of what personally is most important to you, and then look at products that contain these materials. Once you have narrowed it down to a few things that are important to you, it will be a bit easier for you to more objectively compare A to B and see if the extra cost affiliated with one brand versus another is worth it to you. To that end, the link I provided earlier to some of the online options of members on this forum (I think they compete well with the best in the industry ) can serve as a good reference point to help you make some important rankings within your own personal value equation. Of course, right now we’re simply mentioning componentry and not at all dealing with your personal comfort, which in the end is the most important part of your personal value equation.

I’m a side sleeper and I’m 6’ tall 240 lbs. My wife is ½ my size and a side sleeper as well. It seems logical to me that we would benefit from a split mattress with different comfort and support layers. Any recommendations in number of latex layers and overall mattress height?

Many people prefer a split configuration, especially when there is a large difference in the mass or sleeping styles of each individual using a mattress. The thickness of a mattress is just a side effect of the design and by itself isn't particularly meaningful because whether a thicker or thinner mattress would be better or worse for any particular person will depend on the specifics of the materials (type, firmness, etc.) and on all the other layers in the mattress. Thickness is only one of many specs that are used to make different mattresses that perform and feel differently and that makes a mattress suitable for one person and not another. There is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here . Regardless of how thick or thin a mattress may be ... the most important part of the "value" of a mattress is how suitable it is "as a whole" for your particular body type, sleeping positions, and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) regardless of how thick it may be.

I was under the impression that me being a bigger guy that I would not want to “bottom out” to the support layer, so there for I would need a thick (minimum of 3”) comfort layer if I were to go with 2 layers of latex and possibly get a progressive system with 3 or maybe even 4 layers of latex. Thoughts? By the way, what does 4 layers of latex give you that 3 layers does not, if all layers are 3" thick? Is it possible to have "more" support or "more" comfort with more layers in those respective regions or ILD ranges??

While these are all good questions and knowing the specs that can affect the quality and durability of the layers and components in a mattress is always important ... unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and components and their specs and different layering combinations and mattress designs and how they combine together and can translate them into your own "real life" experience that can be unique to you (which would generally be a very small percentage of people) ... I would tend to avoid using complex combinations of specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you. When you try and choose a mattress based on complex combinations of specs or only based on specs for single layers or components that may not be as relevant or meaningful as you believe they are then the most common outcome is "information overload" and "paralysis by analysis".

As an alternative, the first place I would suggest to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones. If you are considering staying with latex you’d be able to skip some of the sections dealing with other componentry.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation (which I talked about earlier) that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else or whether it will be a good "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase. Again, if you are considering staying with an all-latex mattress, the materials you’d be considering would certainly be higher quality.

If you’re able, one of the advantages of trying mattresses locally is that you can try many different types and styles and combinations of materials and components and firmness levels and compare them to each other in "real time" based on your actual experience rather than just "theory" instead of trying one online mattress at a time and not knowing how it compares to the other mattresses that you could have tried or purchased instead.

Some good local testing will also give you a much better sense of the many different types of materials and components that are used in mattresses and some reference points about the types of mattresses ( see this article ) and general firmness levels you tend to prefer which can help you narrow down your choices regardless of whether you end up purchasing locally or online.

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (type of latex, resilience, firmness etc.) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.

A good online retailer or manufacturer will generally make suggestions that they honestly believe have the best chance of success based on the information you provide them when you talk to them on the phone because this is in both your own and their best interests but again ... at the end of the day the only way to know for certain whether any specific mattress is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience so if you can't test a specific mattress in person then the options you have available after a purchase to either exchange the mattress or individual layers or components or return the mattress for a refund (and any costs involved) would generally become a more important part of your personal value equation just in case a mattress you purchase doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for.

Wouldn’t you agree that toppers or add on layers that go on the outside of a mattress would defeat the benefits of having a cotton/wool top layer on a latex mattress? Shouldn't all of your layers be contained within the confines of the outside fabric of the mattress to take full advantage of all the benefits of the mattress and it's construction?

The layers closest to your skin will always have the greatest impact upon your comfort. If you have a mattress using a cotton/wool encasement and then you place a memory foam topper on that which uses a stretch-knit cover, you certainly would impact the feel/impact of the cotton/wool covering (and the layers beneath that covering). Conversely, if you use a latex topper that uses a cotton/wool covering that is similar to what the base mattress uses, you’d still have the ability to experience the unique characteristics of that layer, as it would be the uppermost layer of the mattress. The choice between using a separate topper or selecting a mattress that contains “everything in one” would be more of a personal preference as opposed to a better/worse choice, as long as you’re aware of the potential impact that the topper will have upon the base mattress beneath it.

This is just a hmmmm question and has no real value other than "I wonder how come" kind of thing. What does a $35,000 mattress get you that a $5000 mattress or even a factory direct $3000 mattress can not?

This is always a fun question to ponder and one that gets asked every once in a while. Post #2 here deals with some of the common questions typically associated with this range of “ultra expensive” mattresses. Spending more doesn’t necessarily guarantee a longer-lasting mattress or dictate that you’ll sleep any better, but some of these mattress do include unique materials and some detailed methods of construction. As you mentioned, it’s always fun to investigate “how the other half lives”.

I know this has been a rather long response, but I wanted to do my best to provide some answers to all of your questions. If you’re considering an all-latex mattress, you’re certainly considering a good starting point. After reading through the mattress shopping tutorial and some of the other links I’ve provided, I would next suggest for you to search out any local vendors carrying all-latex products for you to sample. Out of the three brands you previously mentioned, Savvy Rest will be the one most readily available in showrooms for use as a reference.

Good luck in your search!

Phoenix
03 Nov 2016 10:54
Hi Sally,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

I have read your wonderfully informative site extensively.


I’m glad you’ve taken the time to study the site.

I am now looking seriously at innerspring mattresses which I understand to be cooler than Latex or Memory Foam. I have also been directed to innerspring mattresses, preferably with pocket coils (with sufficient coil count) and a top layer of natural fibers including wool and cotton.
Also, do you know of other mattresses that are known for being cool? This is my key reason for buying a new mattress


(In addition to the information below ... post #29 here has more information about temperature regulation and the microclimate on a mattress.)

There are many factors which control the sleeping temperature of a mattress and only one of these is the foam/fiber that is used in the mattress ... particularly important is what is contained in the upper layers.

There are 3 main types of foam which is memory foam, polyfoam, and latex. Of these three ... memory foam tends to be the most insulating and least breathable followed by polyfoam and latex is the most breathable. Talalay tends to be more breathable than Dunlop. There are also variations in each category and less dense foams tend to be more breathable than denser foams while firmer foams tend to allow less sinking in which can mean there is less insulating foam material against your body.

All foams are insulators (rather than heat conductors) so to some degree they will all be warmer than mattresses that contain no foam at all (such as mattresses that only have an innerspring and layers of natural fibers on top) but these tend to be premium or super premium mattresses and for the most part almost all mattresses have some type of foam in the comfort layers.

Some of the other factors involved in how warm a mattress sleeps are how closely the foam conforms to your body (the more closely it conforms around you the more insulating it is), how soft or thick the foam in the comfort layers are (the softer/thicker it is the deeper you will sink into the more insulating materials), the type of quilting used in the mattress (natural fibers allow for more airflow and humidity control which translates into better temperature regulation), the type of ticking (cover) used (natural or more breathable fibers such as cotton or viscose or even some of the more breathable synthetics will wick away moisture and ventilate better and humidity control is a key part of temperature control), and on any cooling technologies used in the mattress such as ventilating and moisture wicking materials, heat conductive materials, or phase change materials (you can read more about these in post #9 here and at the end of post #4 here ) and you can read more about the various different types of gel foams in post #2 here . In general terms gel foams will tend to have a temporary effect on temperature while you are first going to sleep until temperatures equalize but have less effect on temperature regulation throughout the course of the night.

While the upper layers of a mattress are the most significant part of temperature and moisture regulation ... deeper support components that allow more airflow can also have an effect and so innersprings will also tend to sleep cooler than foam support cores as long as the air can ventilate to the outside of the mattress.

You mentioned pocketed coils, and there are differences in the amount of air that moves through different pocketed coil systems, based upon the covering being used. Some more advanced pocketed coil systems have gone to cutting small holes within their fabric coil coverings (seen more in Europe), and even using a special mesh, to increase air flow between the springs. Open spring systems (like Bonnell, LFK or Continuous Coil) will circulate more air than pocketed coil systems.

In addition to this ... the mattress protector you choose along with your sheets and other bedding and what you wear when you sleep will also have a significant effect on temperature regulation because they can either add to the insulating effect or to the ventilating and moisture wicking effect of your mattress. You can see more about the effect of different mattress protectors in post #89 here . Bedding made from natural fibers or viscose materials (like bamboo) will also tend to be cooler than synthetic fibers and linen sheets along with silk are probably the coolest of all the natural fibers for those where sleeping temperature is a main priority. There is more about sheets and bedding in post #7 here . In many cases changing the mattress protector, sheets, or bedding to cooler versions can make "enough" of a difference for many people who would otherwise sleep hot on a mattress.

All of this of course is separate from any environmental conditions in the bedroom (temperature and humidity levels with higher humidity adding to the perception of heat), on the physiology and tendency of the person themselves to sleep warmer or cooler and where they are in the "oven to iceberg" range, and on their weight and body type which will affect how deeply they sink into the foam layers of the mattress.

In other words ... it's always a combination of several interacting factors that determines the sleeping temperature of a mattress in combination with a specific person and environment.

Overall ... if you are looking at a mattress that contains foam of some type ... then latex with natural fibers in the quilting (such as wool) and fabrics that can wick away moisture and help it evaporate more rapidly are the coolest sleeping or more accurately the most temperature regulating mattresses and firmer will tend to be cooler than softer.

Mattresses that don't use any foam at all and only use an innerspring with natural fiber comfort layers will tend to be cooler and more temperature regulating than any type of foam including latex.

Today I visited Urban Mattress and tried their VISPRING Elite and Coronet mattresses. These are well made but quite expensive.


Vi-Spring certainly makes some exceptionally high quality hand built and tufted mattresses that uses high quality materials and components (pocket coils and natural fibers) but as you probably know they are in a much more premium budget range than many other mattresses that also use natural materials. There is more about Vi Spring and other "ultra premium" mattresses in post #2 here and post #2 here and post #2 here may also be of interest as well but I would be very careful to differentiate how you feel "about" a Vi Spring and how you feel "on" a Vi Spring. There are certainly cases where a mattress in this budget range may be "worth it" for a particular person that isn't price sensitive and that has specific criteria that aren't available in lower budget ranges but this would be unusual and in general I would need a compelling reason that clearly indicated there was "enough" of a difference in "real life" compared to many other mattresses that may be just as suitable in terms of comfort and PPP, just as durable, and that are in much lower budget ranges to justify the higher cost.

Do you know of similar types of mattresses?


Finding a "comparable" mattress will really depend on what you mean by comparable.

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don't normally try to "match" another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to "match" or "approximate" another one in terms of firmness or "feel" and PPP and/or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the "averages" of a larger group of people that have compared them (different people may have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare) ... the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they "feel" or in terms of firmness or PPP (regardless of anyone else's opinions of how they compare which may be different from your own) would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

There are also no "standard" definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like "medium" for someone else or even "soft" for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they "rate" a mattress as well (see post #15 here ) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

In other words ... if two mattresses have different designs and materials then your own careful testing or personal experience is the only reliable way to compare two mattresses in terms of "comfort" firmness, and PPP.

Comparing two mattresses in terms of durability is much more simple and more objective once you know the specifications of all the materials and layers in two mattresses you are comparing ( see this article ) because making durability comparisons is just a matter of comparing the quality and durability of the materials and components inside it and making sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress that would be a reason for concern. If for any reason a retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with either isn't willing or able to provide you with the specifics of the materials and components in their mattresses, then I would avoid it completely. Again though I would always keep in mind that the quality and durability of the materials has little to nothing to do with how a mattress will feel or compare to any other mattress in terms of comfort, firmness, or PPP.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice ( see this article ), of course with a strong part of your PPP being a more breathable product.

I know I’ve given you a lot to think about, but the questions you posed don’t have simple answers. But hopefully the information I’ve presented will be assistive to you as you go through this process.

I look forward to learning about your progress!

Phoenix
03 Nov 2016 10:54
Hi Sally,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

I have read your wonderfully informative site extensively.


I’m glad you’ve taken the time to study the site.

I am now looking seriously at innerspring mattresses which I understand to be cooler than Latex or Memory Foam. I have also been directed to innerspring mattresses, preferably with pocket coils (with sufficient coil count) and a top layer of natural fibers including wool and cotton.
Also, do you know of other mattresses that are known for being cool? This is my key reason for buying a new mattress


(In addition to the information below ... post #29 here has more information about temperature regulation and the microclimate on a mattress.)

There are many factors which control the sleeping temperature of a mattress and only one of these is the foam/fiber that is used in the mattress ... particularly important is what is contained in the upper layers.

There are 3 main types of foam which is memory foam, polyfoam, and latex. Of these three ... memory foam tends to be the most insulating and least breathable followed by polyfoam and latex is the most breathable. Talalay tends to be more breathable than Dunlop. There are also variations in each category and less dense foams tend to be more breathable than denser foams while firmer foams tend to allow less sinking in which can mean there is less insulating foam material against your body.

All foams are insulators (rather than heat conductors) so to some degree they will all be warmer than mattresses that contain no foam at all (such as mattresses that only have an innerspring and layers of natural fibers on top) but these tend to be premium or super premium mattresses and for the most part almost all mattresses have some type of foam in the comfort layers.

Some of the other factors involved in how warm a mattress sleeps are how closely the foam conforms to your body (the more closely it conforms around you the more insulating it is), how soft or thick the foam in the comfort layers are (the softer/thicker it is the deeper you will sink into the more insulating materials), the type of quilting used in the mattress (natural fibers allow for more airflow and humidity control which translates into better temperature regulation), the type of ticking (cover) used (natural or more breathable fibers such as cotton or viscose or even some of the more breathable synthetics will wick away moisture and ventilate better and humidity control is a key part of temperature control), and on any cooling technologies used in the mattress such as ventilating and moisture wicking materials, heat conductive materials, or phase change materials (you can read more about these in post #9 here and at the end of post #4 here ) and you can read more about the various different types of gel foams in post #2 here . In general terms gel foams will tend to have a temporary effect on temperature while you are first going to sleep until temperatures equalize but have less effect on temperature regulation throughout the course of the night.

While the upper layers of a mattress are the most significant part of temperature and moisture regulation ... deeper support components that allow more airflow can also have an effect and so innersprings will also tend to sleep cooler than foam support cores as long as the air can ventilate to the outside of the mattress.

You mentioned pocketed coils, and there are differences in the amount of air that moves through different pocketed coil systems, based upon the covering being used. Some more advanced pocketed coil systems have gone to cutting small holes within their fabric coil coverings (seen more in Europe), and even using a special mesh, to increase air flow between the springs. Open spring systems (like Bonnell, LFK or Continuous Coil) will circulate more air than pocketed coil systems.

In addition to this ... the mattress protector you choose along with your sheets and other bedding and what you wear when you sleep will also have a significant effect on temperature regulation because they can either add to the insulating effect or to the ventilating and moisture wicking effect of your mattress. You can see more about the effect of different mattress protectors in post #89 here . Bedding made from natural fibers or viscose materials (like bamboo) will also tend to be cooler than synthetic fibers and linen sheets along with silk are probably the coolest of all the natural fibers for those where sleeping temperature is a main priority. There is more about sheets and bedding in post #7 here . In many cases changing the mattress protector, sheets, or bedding to cooler versions can make "enough" of a difference for many people who would otherwise sleep hot on a mattress.

All of this of course is separate from any environmental conditions in the bedroom (temperature and humidity levels with higher humidity adding to the perception of heat), on the physiology and tendency of the person themselves to sleep warmer or cooler and where they are in the "oven to iceberg" range, and on their weight and body type which will affect how deeply they sink into the foam layers of the mattress.

In other words ... it's always a combination of several interacting factors that determines the sleeping temperature of a mattress in combination with a specific person and environment.

Overall ... if you are looking at a mattress that contains foam of some type ... then latex with natural fibers in the quilting (such as wool) and fabrics that can wick away moisture and help it evaporate more rapidly are the coolest sleeping or more accurately the most temperature regulating mattresses and firmer will tend to be cooler than softer.

Mattresses that don't use any foam at all and only use an innerspring with natural fiber comfort layers will tend to be cooler and more temperature regulating than any type of foam including latex.

Today I visited Urban Mattress and tried their VISPRING Elite and Coronet mattresses. These are well made but quite expensive.


Vi-Spring certainly makes some exceptionally high quality hand built and tufted mattresses that uses high quality materials and components (pocket coils and natural fibers) but as you probably know they are in a much more premium budget range than many other mattresses that also use natural materials. There is more about Vi Spring and other "ultra premium" mattresses in post #2 here and post #2 here and post #2 here may also be of interest as well but I would be very careful to differentiate how you feel "about" a Vi Spring and how you feel "on" a Vi Spring. There are certainly cases where a mattress in this budget range may be "worth it" for a particular person that isn't price sensitive and that has specific criteria that aren't available in lower budget ranges but this would be unusual and in general I would need a compelling reason that clearly indicated there was "enough" of a difference in "real life" compared to many other mattresses that may be just as suitable in terms of comfort and PPP, just as durable, and that are in much lower budget ranges to justify the higher cost.

Do you know of similar types of mattresses?


Finding a "comparable" mattress will really depend on what you mean by comparable.

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don't normally try to "match" another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to "match" or "approximate" another one in terms of firmness or "feel" and PPP and/or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the "averages" of a larger group of people that have compared them (different people may have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare) ... the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they "feel" or in terms of firmness or PPP (regardless of anyone else's opinions of how they compare which may be different from your own) would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

There are also no "standard" definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like "medium" for someone else or even "soft" for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they "rate" a mattress as well (see post #15 here ) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

In other words ... if two mattresses have different designs and materials then your own careful testing or personal experience is the only reliable way to compare two mattresses in terms of "comfort" firmness, and PPP.

Comparing two mattresses in terms of durability is much more simple and more objective once you know the specifications of all the materials and layers in two mattresses you are comparing ( see this article ) because making durability comparisons is just a matter of comparing the quality and durability of the materials and components inside it and making sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress that would be a reason for concern. If for any reason a retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with either isn't willing or able to provide you with the specifics of the materials and components in their mattresses, then I would avoid it completely. Again though I would always keep in mind that the quality and durability of the materials has little to nothing to do with how a mattress will feel or compare to any other mattress in terms of comfort, firmness, or PPP.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice ( see this article ), of course with a strong part of your PPP being a more breathable product.

I know I’ve given you a lot to think about, but the questions you posed don’t have simple answers. But hopefully the information I’ve presented will be assistive to you as you go through this process.

I look forward to learning about your progress!

Phoenix
30 Oct 2016 20:02
Hi Mattress1953,

Thanks so much for your reply Phoenix. It was extremely helpful.


You’re welcome. :)

I noticed you didn't comment on the Kluft mattress and it's smell not diminishing after a week


I think that I addressed the issue of odors in my previous reply and the sensitivities that different people have to different substances. The fact is that you personally detect the presence of an odor, so there is no reason for me to comment upon the fact that you are experiencing an odor from the product. I certainly would have no way of knowing to what you might be reacting to inside of the many layers of the mattress. You don’t mention the model or componentry on the inside of the mattress, so there wouldn’t even be a basis for me to make a meaningful statement about the product, but even if I did have that information I wouldn’t be irresponsible to speculate about what may be causing your reaction.

Regarding Kluft mattresses in general (I know you’ve already bought one), I would advise others to be very cautious with the Kluft line and make sure that you know the specifics of all the layers and materials in the specific mattress you are considering ( see this article ) and also that you make some very careful value comparisons with other mattresses that use the same or similar materials and are in much lower budget ranges base on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

You can see some of my thoughts about super premium mattresses in post #2 here and in post #2 here , if you’re specifically thinking about beds in these “ultra-price” ranges. Of course, pricing and your odor sensitivities will have nothing to do with each other.

If I was looking at mattresses like this ... i would probably be looking at VI Springs or perhaps Hastens, Savoir, Relyon, or Hypnos rather than Kluft. Their sites will give you lots of insights about how they make their mattresses. Most of them also have some fairly thick "books" of information they will send you about their mattresses. But again, this is no indicator of your potential reaction to any odors to which you may have a reaction.

Phoenix
25 Sep 2016 10:36
Thanks again for all the advice! I'd been playing phone tag with Christeli, so I submitted my questions on their website and am now waiting for a reply.

curimattrous
21 Sep 2016 08:01
Hi curimattrous,

I was wondering if you knew of any other memory foam mattresses that use 7lb or higher memory foam in their comfort layer, so far I've only seen it in the Grand Bed and Grandis HD.


Off the top of my head the only other ones I can think of are the Sleep Science Escape here and the Original Mattress Factory Serenity here and the Joplimo Swearingen here.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: costco.com/sleep-science-escape-luxury-mattress-collection.html |Archived Footprint 2: joplimo.com/product/swearingen/

I would keep in mind though that memory foam can have a very wide range of different properties even if it is the same density and once you are past about 6 lbs or so any durability benefits of higher density memory foam would be greatly diminished.

Is it more beneficial to have a thicker layer of less dense memory foam (1" of 6lb and 7" of 5.3lb in the Palais Grand Royal) or a thicker layer of denser memory foam, but less foam overall (2" of 6 lb and 4" of 5.3lb in the Lux Estate) one way or the other?


It's not possible to tell how a mattress will feel and perform for any specific person based on the specs or density of the materials and it would depend entirely on the person and which mattress design was a better match in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP. For some people one would be better and for some the other would be better and for some neither one would be a suitable choice. The only way to know would be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience when you sleep on it.

In the Palais Grand Royale, however, since the bed has two sides, it doesn't look you can sleep with all of the 5.3lb right beneath you, some will be at the very bottom of the mattress (I'm calling to confirm this later).


The Palais Grand Royale can be used in several configurations and one of them is using both memory foam sections on top of the mattress.

I would be cautious with very thick layers of memory foam though because memory foam can soften in response to temperature, humidity, and continuous compression and with thicker memory foam layers you may be in good alignment when you first go to sleep at night but if the memory foam softens too much you may no longer be in good alignment when you wake up in the morning.

I also looked at the Christeli Charleston, which seems nearly identical to the Lux Estate except that instead of the natural latex support system layer it has an adjustable ortho core as well as "Cool Tufting' rather than the 'Silk Tufting' like in the Lux Estate and was wondering if you could tell me the benefits of each (though I plan to ask once I talk with them)


A phone call with Christeli would be the best source of guidance about the specific differences between their different models.

Also, in comparing the Lux Estate and Palais Grand Royale to the Grand Bed Christeli has a comparison that they all use 5.3 and 6lb memory foam, but upon calling Tempurpedic I learned that their comfort layer is 7.1lb.


The GrandBed includes 7.2" of memory foam and 2" of it is 7.1 lb memory foam and 5.2" of it is their 5.3 lb memory foam.

Phoenix
21 Sep 2016 03:45
That is too true. I make that statement only because of sleeping on the mattress at the hotel for a few days and getting a better sleep than on my tuft and Needle, which I already get a good sleep on, and how much better the Grand Bed felt than the mattress at the hotel. However, I still plan to test it more today like you recommend.

I was wondering if you knew of any other memory foam mattresses that use 7lb or higher memory foam in their comfort layer, so far I've only seen it in the Grand Bed and Grandis HD.

Is it more beneficial to have a thicker layer of less dense memory foam (1" of 6lb and 7" of 5.3lb in the Palais Grand Royal) or a thicker layer of denser memory foam, but less foam overall (2" of 6 lb and 4" of 5.3lb in the Lux Estate) one way or the other? In the Palais Grand Royale, however, since the bed has two sides, it doesn't look you can sleep with all of the 5.3lb right beneath you, some will be at the very bottom of the mattress (I'm calling to confirm this later). I also looked at the Christeli Charleston, which seems nearly identical to the Lux Estate except that instead of the natural latex support system layer it has an adjustable ortho core as well as "Cool Tufting' rather than the 'Silk Tufting' like in the Lux Estate and was wondering if you could tell me the benefits of each (though I plan to ask once I talk with them)

Also, in comparing the Lux Estate and Palais Grand Royale to the Grand Bed Christeli has a comparison that they all use 5.3 and 6lb memory foam, but upon calling Tempurpedic I learned that their comfort layer is 7.1lb.

curimattrous
20 Sep 2016 18:37
Hi curimattrous,

as soon as I got on it I could tell it was a cut above the others by how comfortable it was


I would always keep in mind that "comfort" and the "showroom feel" of a mattress is very subjective and isn't nearly as important as doing some careful testing for good spinal alignment (which is most important) and good pressure relief (which is the next most important) in all your sleeping positions. These are the two primary functions of a mattress and will be a much more important factor in how well you sleep on a mattress and how well you feel when you wake up in the morning than the "feel" of a mattress in a showroom.

Phoenix
20 Sep 2016 17:50
Thanks again for the information, Phoenix. I understand that two different mattresses won't be an exact match unless they're made exactly the same; it just appeared that the Grandis HD was made specifically to equal or outperform the Grand Bed and I was wondering if there were any other mattresses comparing themselves to the Grand Bed seemingly to do the same thing. Thank you very much for telling me about the Lux Estate and Palais Grand Royale. Thank you also for the warning about carefully testing the Grand Bed and not just assuming it was better because of the higher price; at the store I'm not sure how many Tempurpedics I tried before the Grand Bed, but as soon as I got on it I could tell it was a cut above the others by how comfortable it was. I'm planning to go back again tomorrow just to make sure it was as good as I remember before possible moving forward with Christeli, and now I know about PPP to help with the decision. Much appreciated!

curimattrous
19 Sep 2016 19:37
Hi curimattrous,

is there anything else comparable with the Tempur Grand Bed?


There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don't normally try to "match" another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to "match" or "approximate" another one in terms of firmness or "feel" and PPP and/or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the "averages" of a larger group of people that have compared them (different people may have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare) ... the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they "feel" or in terms of firmness or PPP (regardless of anyone else's opinions of how they compare which may be different from your own) would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

Having said that ... if you are researching online memory foam mattresses then the mattress shopping tutorial includes a link to a list of some of the better online memory foam options I'm aware of (in the optional online step) and several of them make memory foam mattresses that they describe as being reasonable approximations of many of the Tempurpedic mattresses. Several of the other retailers or manufacturers that are on the list that don't specifically describe their mattresses as being similar to one of the Tempurpedic models would probably also be able to give you more information about which of their mattresses would be the closest approximation to a Tempurpedic mattress that you prefer as well.

I would also keep in mind that different people can have very different opinions about how a mattress feels or compares to another mattress. The "feel" of a mattress is also very subjective and isn't the same thing as the firmness of a mattress or whether a mattress is a good "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness and PPP so another memory foam mattress may have a very different "feel" but still be just as suitable for you to sleep on, just as durable, and have a similar firmness level.

The only manufacturer on the list that I'm aware of off the top of my head that sells a mattress that they compare to the Tempurpedic GrandBed is Christeli and they compare both their Palais Grand Royal and their Lux Estate mattresses to the GrandBed. Their designs are different however because both mattresses include latex support cores (which is a different but higher quality material than the polyfoam that Tempurpedic uses in their base layers) and their memory foam thicknesses and densities and "feel" are also different from the memory foam layers in the Grandbed but there are no lower quality or weak links in either mattress. I would also be aware that they only offer a 50 day exchange policy and don't have a return policy so if you purchase a mattress from them that isn't as suitable as you hoped for then you will only be able to make a single exchange for a different mattress ... although they do provide good guidance to help you decide which of their mattresses would have the best chance of success.

I would also make sure that you have done some careful testing to confirm that the Tempurpedic GrandBed really is the best "match" for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP out of all the mattresses they offer and that you aren't just assuming that it's somehow better for you because it's their most expensive mattress because any mattress (including the GrandBed) may be a good choice for some people and may be completely unsuitable for other people to sleep on regardless of the price.

Phoenix
19 Sep 2016 18:42
Thank you very much for the quick response, Phoenix.

I hadn't read the post about the switch in suppliers and the possible decline in quality. I would prefer to go elsewhere based on what I've read, but is there anything else comparable with the Tempur Grand Bed?
Displaying 1 - 15 out of 153 results.
TheMattressUndergounf
TMU
TheMattressUndergounf