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Searched for: beautyrest black
13 Sep 2016 15:08
Thanks for your input! I still haven't made my decision, but am stuck with this Beautyrest Black for another 2 weeks anyway, before they will take it back and charge me $450!
13 Sep 2016 07:56
Hi johnnyjuice99,

1) Came across a store in NJ that had a 3 talalay layer system composing of 2" soft, 3" medium, 6" extra firm. Is having the various inches unheard of?


Latex mattresses that have multiple layers with different firmnesses or thicknesses are more the norm than the exception. Online mattresses with multiple layers.are also more common than mattresses that only have a single layer. Different stores or manufacturers carry hundreds of different mattresses that use different types of latex, different different layer thicknesses, and different layer firmnesses to match the different needs and preferences of a wide range of people.

If you are referring to component mattresses with loose layers and a zip cover then you will find a fairly wide range of options available from various manufacturers or retailers that have different designs and different layer thicknesses.

Are online retailers willing to customize?


There are a number of online retailers or manufacturers that sell component mattress "kits" that allow you to customize a mattress by choosing the type of latex or the firmness of each individual layer in the mattress and you can also fine tune the mattress after a purchase by either rearranging the layers or exchanging a layer. Most of them have different models and each model has a specific design with a standard combination of layer thicknesses but you can choose the type of latex or the firmness for each layer. A few provide the option to build a mattress with any combination of latex type, layer thickness, and layer firmness that they have available but this would be more common with local manufacturers than with online manufacturers.

Post #3 here includes a list of many of the online manufacturers that sell component latex mattresses

2) 100% Talalay vs Talalay and Dunlop mix - what is the feeling between the two?


There is more about the general differences between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here and there is also more about all the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here .

I know they are different feels in general but would I notice difference, considering the different density of the two and comparative ILDs (5ft 7in, 172lbs)? Or is this an area where I can save some money and go with T/D mix?


It would depend on the person. Some people are more sensitive and will notice much more subtle differences between two mattresses that most people wouldn't notice at all while others don't seem to notice much difference between mattresses that most people would think are very different. In very general terms the differences between the upper layers of a mattress will generally be more noticeable than differences between the deeper layers of a mattress. Different people will also have different preferences in terns of the type of latex they tend to prefer in some or all of the layers in a mattress.

I'm now about double the budget I initially started at but figured its worth it, but if there is anywhere I can dial it down, let me know.


The amount of latex in a mattress (the mattress thickness) along with the type and blend of latex and the type of cover can all affect the price of a mattress but each of these can also affect the feel and performance of the mattress as well and the only way to know which of these may be more or less important to you and the tradeoffs that would be worth it to you will be based on your own personal experience. Different manufacturers or retailers may also have a range of different prices as well.

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.

A good online retailer or manufacturer will generally suggest a mattress that they honestly believe has the best chance of success based on the information you provide them when you talk to them on the phone because this is in both your own and their best interests but at the end of the day the only way to know for certain whether any specific mattress is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience so if you can't test a specific mattress in person then the options you have available after a purchase to either exchange the mattress or individual layers or components or return the mattress for a refund (and any costs involved) would generally become a more important part of your personal value equation just in case a mattress you purchase doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for.

If there would be a durability/longevity issue of 1 year, that's tolerable to me as long as its past the 9 year mark. I know this is tough gauge, but i'm hoping there has been some experience/feedback on the forum on this.

3) What is the average lifespan of 100% latex bed? 10 years guaranteed? or am i expecting too much?


While there is no way to specifically quantify how long any mattress will last for a specific person or predict exactly when they will decide to replace it because it is no longer suitable or comfortable for them (because this is the only real measure of durability or the useful life of a mattress that really matters) and because there are too many unknowns and variables involved that are unique to each person ... if a mattress is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and isn't close to the edge of being too soft when it is new (see post #2 here ) and you have confirmed that it meets the minimum quality/durability specs relative to your BMI range that are suggested in the durability guidelines here then it would be reasonable to expect a useful lifetime in the range of 7 - 10 years and with higher quality and more durable materials like latex or higher density memory foam or polyfoam (in the comfort layers especially) it would likely be in the higher end of the range or even longer and the chances that you would have additional "bonus time" beyond that would be higher as well.

In very general terms latex is the most durable of all the foam materials that are generally used in the industry.

4) I'm all about reducing risk of short-term failure since i bought the old W Hotel Bed that was on sale about 5yrs back and its now sagging. With that in mind, even if I were to get a Beautyrest Black, it is possible that it could fail around the 7 year mark or earlier, regardless of being a high end innerspring, right? Just want to be sure that going Latex is the safer bet in the long run...


The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons (including their Black line), and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

Most hotel mattresses are also made by the major manufacturers and I would also avoid them as well. They are generally significantly overpriced compared to similar consumer mattresses made by the same manufacturer (which I also wouldn't purchase) because hotel mattresses don't need to be as durable as a consumer mattress that is used every night and that is generally used for longer periods of time than a hotel mattress before it's replaced. They are one of the most common sources of buyers remorse because lower quality and less durable materials can lead to premature softening and the loss of comfort and support and the need to replace the mattress much too quickly after a purchase (and foam softening and the loss of comfort and support isn't covered by mattress warranties). You can read more about hotel mattresses in general in post #3 here and the posts it links to.

You would be very fortunate to get 7 years of use out of any of them and it would be reasonable to expect significantly less.

5) Is there any other NJ retailers I can try in store, other than the one in summit, NJ?


Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here ... the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the Summit, NJ area would be listed in either the Monroe Township/Newark list in post #7 here or the New York City list in post #2 here (there is a fair bit of overlap between them).

Phoenix
12 Sep 2016 21:31
Hi,

I'm new to the website but definitely had my fair share of reading here... and wow. Lots of info. Same story for me, back pain, extreme tight hamstrings due to poor support, causing ankle tendon complications etc. The hunt began with innerspring Stearns and Foster to Beautyrest Black then now stepped up to Latex. Thought is, it will last longer (hopefully more than 10 years) and cheaper to fix, replace a single layer. Not a fan of tempurpedic memory foam and the sinking in feeling.

1) Came across a store in NJ that had a 3 talalay layer system composing of 2" soft, 3" medium, 6" extra firm. Is having the various inches unheard of? I have yet to find an online retailer have such an offering. I do like initial softness and immediate strong support behind it. Are online retailers willing to customize?

2) 100% Talalay vs Talalay and Dunlop mix - what is the feeling between the two? I know they are different feels in general but would I notice difference, considering the different density of the two and comparative ILDs (5ft 7in, 172lbs)? Or is this an area where I can save some money and go with T/D mix? I'm now about double the budget I initially started at but figured its worth it, but if there is anywhere I can dial it down, let me know. If there would be a durability/longevity issue of 1 year, that's tolerable to me as long as its past the 9 year mark. I know this is tough gauge, but i'm hoping there has been some experience/feedback on the forum on this.

3) What is the average lifespan of 100% latex bed? 10 years guaranteed? or am i expecting too much?

4) I'm all about reducing risk of short-term failure since i bought the old W Hotel Bed that was on sale about 5yrs back and its now sagging. With that in mind, even if I were to get a Beautyrest Black, it is possible that it could fail around the 7 year mark or earlier, regardless of being a high end innerspring, right? Just want to be sure that going Latex is the safer bet in the long run...

5) Is there any other NJ retailers I can try in store, other than the one in summit, NJ?
11 Sep 2016 16:41
I would like to be able to try out different mattresses in my area before buying. We are overdue for a new mattress and would like to spend around $1500 .. I must admit I am a bit worried about buying online. I've looked at your list of recommended members in an effort to make a visit to one of them, but the only site is more than 2 hours away from here.

I've read the mattress shopping tutorial as well as many posts on the forum, and now agree that I do not want to buy one of the 15 brands that should be avoided. Before finding your site, I was thinking about trying out a Beautyrest Black, but not anymore! Actually, I've read so much about mattresses lately, my head is swimming. (I've also been on Sleep Like the Dead and The Old Bed Guy) Currently, I own a Beautyrest pillowtop that is approximately 11 years old. It sleeps hot and gives me terrible pain in my hip and lower back. The box spring is on slats and we have a platform sleigh bed.

I am a side sleeper, age 55 and weigh under 120 lbs. with a BMI of 23. My husband's age is 46, weight is 185 with a BMI of 26. He is also a side sleeper.

Again, if you can recommend an actual place in my area (Scranton Pennsylvania) that I can physically see and feel the mattresses, I would be very thankful.
03 Sep 2016 14:46
Hi jleining,

Bummed out...spent a long time explaining issue, and it disappeared! Do users get timed out when composing?


It's not normally an issue if you are in a reply window but it can happen occasionally with any forum software when there are a combination of factors that can cause your current forum session to time out (see post #3 here ).

Anyway...I am about to return a too-firm Beautyrest Black (nonhybrid) at a big $ loss, due to fees. I previously had a sleep number bed, and kept the platform parts and cover. I have decided to give a talalay organic latex mattress a try, from FloBeds or SleepEZ. Can I use the molded plastic-like sleep number platform, which has a 4-part slab, and lock-together sides and cross-supports, and a non-skid cover? Maybe with one of those bed rugs?


You can see some comments about solid surface support systems in post #10 here . It would certainly be supportive enough and if you don't have any additional risk factors it should be fine. With a bed rug to provide some additional airflow and breathability under the mattress it would certainly be fine in any normal conditions.

Secondly, is there any advised thickness for a latex mattress? They sell both three and four layers, although more ILD options at the more expensive FloBeds. I am currently about 172 lbs and 5'4" although dieting, of course! I am a side to stomach sleeper, due to sleep apnea, and am afemale more apple than pear shaped, not much of a waistline at all. :( If a less expensive 10 inch works as well as a more expensive 12 or 13 inch, seems that would be the way to go, unless there is a benefit for the taller one. Please advise, planning to order this weekend if I can figure it all out! Thanks.


The thickness of a mattress or the number of layers or the thickness of any individual layers inside it is really just a side effect of the design and the design goals of a mattress and the thickness of any individual layers or the complete mattress is also only one of many variables that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress relative to any particular person (see post #2 here ) and by itself isn't particularly meaningful (see post #2 here ). In some cases people that are in higher weight ranges (or a higher BMI) will sometimes do better with a mattress that is thicker than lower weight ranges or a lower BMI (see post #14 here for more about the effect of thickness) but even this depends more on the specific design and combination of materials in the mattress and on how well your testing or personal experience indicates the mattress "as a whole" matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP than it does on just the thickness itself.

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart (and isn't just interested in "selling you" any mattress they can convince you to buy) and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Both of the manufacturers you are considering are members here which means that I think highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency so you are certainly looking two great quality/value choices.

Once you have narrowed down your options to a list of finalists that are all choices between "good and good" (which you have) and you have confirmed that none of them have any lower quality materials or "weak links" in their design (which they don't) and if at this point there are no clear winners between them (which is usually a good indication that you have done some good research) then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your more detailed conversations with each of them, your personal preferences, your confidence about PPP and the suitability of each one, their prices, the options you have after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or exchange or return the mattress (or individual layers in some cases) and any costs involved, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on "informed best judgement" based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
03 Sep 2016 13:00
Bummed out...spent a long time explaining issue, and it disappeared! Do users get timed out when composing?
Anyway...I am about to return a too-firm Beautyrest Black (nonhybrid) at a big $ loss, due to fees. I previously had a sleep number bed, and kept the platform parts and cover. I have decided to give a talalay organic latex mattress a try, from FloBeds or SleepEZ. Can I use the molded plastic-like sleep number platform, which has a 4-part slab, and lock-together sides and cross-supports, and a non-skid cover? Maybe with one of those bed rugs? Secondly, is there any advised thickness for a latex mattress? They sell both three and four layers, although more ILD options at the more expensive FloBeds. I am currently about 172 lbs and 5'4" although dieting, of course! I am a side to stomach sleeper, due to sleep apnea, and am afemale more apple than pear shaped, not much of a waistline at all. :( If a less expensive 10 inch works as well as a more expensive 12 or 13 inch, seems that would be the way to go, unless there is a benefit for the taller one. Please advise, planning to order this weekend if I can figure it all out! Thanks.
03 Sep 2016 09:42
Hi Dayne411,

What do you think I should do? Ask for my money back? Where should we look next if I do?


The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta (including the Beautyrest Black line) all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well such as Sleepy's/Mattress Firm) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

You can see an example of the type and quality of the materials in a Beautyrest Black box top here and if you compare them to the durability guidelines here you will see that it includes some very low quality/density materials that would be a weak link in the mattress and could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress much too quickly.

He responded by telling us that since Sleepy's was recently purchased by Mattress Firm, meaning all existing Sleepy's stores and their inventory were being converted over the Mattress Firm over the next few months. Their New York location had already changed and had a clearance version of the "Tom Brady" mattress that he could ship up to us for $2370 with only a 10% refundable deposit required right now. My girlfriend was sold, however I was still skeptical. Nonetheless, given that she'll be my fiancé soon, I bowed to her wishes.


This is one of the oldest "tricks" or marketing tactics in the book that many of the larger chain stores use to create a false sense of urgency and commitment to help increase the odds that a potential customer will buy a mattress from them before they walk out the door.

If I was in your shoes there is no doubt that I would cancel the purchase and get a refund of your deposit and continue to look for a better quality/value mattress that would be just as suitable in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) but that uses higher quality materials that would be much more durable.

She obliged and we looked up mattress stores in our area, Newton, MA.


Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets your criteria and the quality/value guidelines here ... the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the larger Boston region are listed in post #2 here .

I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but the best place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here (which I also linked earlier in this reply) which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
03 Sep 2016 05:55
I just got back from mattress shopping with my girlfriend for the first time. We visited only two stores and came home with a 10% refundable deposit on King sized version of the BeautyRest Ultimate Firm Boxtop Mattress from Sleepys.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: sleepys.com/simmons-beautyrest-simmons-beautyrest-ultimate-firm-boxtop-mattress/SI51716%2F6MAT.html


Earlier that day I had come across this site and told her that we should stay away from the "S" models and go for something "off brand". She obliged and we looked up mattress stores in our area, Newton, MA. We visited Gardner Mattress first a local, hand-made in-house mattress manufacturer and retailer with 5-star Yelp reviews. We tried several mattresses and while we landed on one (no pun intended) that we liked, we didn't fall in love. Gardner seems to use high quality material and construction methods, however it didn't blow us away.

Just down the street was Sleepy's (where she had purchased in the past with positive results) so we went there next. We tried probably 15 different innerspring mattresses over the course of 2 hours from the low-end Simmons Beautyrest Recharge all the way up to the Simmons Beautyrest Black including other models by Serta and Sealy. We ended up both really liking the Simmons Beautyrest Recharge Shakespeare Luxury Plush, that was until we got shown "The Tom Brady" bed.

We both loved the way it felt, it was the perfect balance. We asked how much and the salesman told us $5,000 to which I immediately asked if Tom Brady was in the back ready to personally deliver it himself…. Showing some hesitation after the price, we began throwing signals that we needed more time to think things over as we were not in a rush to purchase. He responded by telling us that since Sleepy's was recently purchased by Mattress Firm, meaning all existing Sleepy's stores and their inventory were being converted over the Mattress Firm over the next few months. Their New York location had already changed and had a clearance version of the "Tom Brady" mattress that he could ship up to us for $2370 with only a 10% refundable deposit required right now. My girlfriend was sold, however I was still skeptical. Nonetheless, given that she'll be my fiancé soon, I bowed to her wishes.

So now I'm here, looking for advice on what to do next. I loved the bed too, however a quick search on here as well as Amazon shows less than stellar reviews regarding its longevity. I'm 200lbs and 6' and sleep on my side, back and stomach, she is 145lbs and 5'8 and sleeps on her side primarily, however she has some back problems from her collegiate golf days. We both like a good amount of firmness with some sinking in. We currently use a now defunct brand comfort firm mattress with a 2" foam topper.

What do you think I should do? Ask for my money back? Where should we look next if I do?
31 Aug 2016 18:07
Hi tonster67,

I like the Beautyrest Black Hybrids.


The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta (including the Beautyrest Black line) all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

My question is that as a 6'2" 250lb side sleeper what serves as good support layers? Pocket Coils vs Firmer Foam or just all Latex? I really dont want to spend $1,500 so that may eliminate the all latex anyway.


Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the durability guidelines here relative to your weight/BMI range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice (see this article ). The best way to know which types of materials or mattresses or firmness levels you tend to prefer in very general terms will be based on your own local testing or your own personal experience.

I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Since your BMI is over 30 there is more information in post #3 here and the posts it links to that would be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges or have a higher BMI and you would need to make sure that the materials and components in your mattress meet the durability guidelines I linked earlier in this reply relative to your BMI range.

While the process of how to choose a mattress would involve the same steps that are listed in the mattress shopping tutorial ... most people in higher weight ranges or that have a higher BMI will generally need or prefer firmer mattresses (firmer materials will feel softer because you will sink into them more) and materials and components that are higher quality and more durable than those that are in lower weight or BMI ranges (the materials and components in a mattress will soften and break down faster for those in higher weight ranges than they will for someone that is in a lower weight range that doesn't compress the mattress as much). I would be particularly cautious about mattresses that use more than "about an inch or so" of memory foam that is less than about 5 lb density or polyfoam that is less than about 2 lb density ... particularly in the upper layers of the mattress (which are usually the weakest link in terms of the durability and useful life of a mattress).

If you let me know your city or zip code I'd certainly be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in your area.

Phoenix
31 Aug 2016 17:39
I like the feel of the gel foams and am open to latex as well. I like the Beautyrest Black Hybrids. My question is that as a 6'2" 250lb side sleeper what serves as good support layers? Pocket Coils vs Firmer Foam or just all Latex? I really dont want to spend $1,500 so that may eliminate the all latex anyway.
28 Aug 2016 11:50
Hi tonster67,

Been laying on mattresses and my favorite "feel" is the Beautyrest Black "Jennings" model with the BlackIce layer. Any recommended alternatives. Dont love the price and I would prefer to support the Vendors here.


The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers such as Mattress Firm that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don't normally try to "match" another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to "match" or "approximate" another one in terms of firmness or "feel" and PPP and/or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the "averages" of a larger group of people that have compared them (different people may have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare) ... the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they "feel" or in terms of firmness or PPP (regardless of anyone else's opinions of how they compare which may be different from your own) would be based on your own careful testing or your actual sleeping experience on both of them.

In most cases spending time testing major brand mattresses or any mattress where you can't find out the specifics of the materials and components inside it and where another manufacturer doesn't make a similar or better quality/value mattress that they specifically describe as being similar (which you won't find in the case of Simmons mattresses) is mostly wasted because it would be too risky to purchase and it can't be used as a reference point to purchase another mattress that is "similar" anyway.

If you are considering online options that you can't test in person before a purchase then the mattress shopping tutorial includes several links to lists of many of the better online options I'm aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses that use different materials and components in a wide range of designs, budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that may be well worth considering as well. One of the lists includes many of the better online memory foam options I'm aware of.

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

As an aside, im 6'2" 250lb side sleeper.


Since your BMI is over 30 there is more information in post #3 here and the posts it links to that would be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges or have a higher BMI and you would need to make sure that the materials and components in your mattress meet the durability guidelines here relative to your BMI range.

While the process of how to choose a mattress would involve the same steps that are listed in the mattress shopping tutorial ... most people in higher weight ranges or that have a higher BMI will generally need or prefer firmer mattresses (firmer materials will feel softer because you will sink into them more) and materials and components that are higher quality and more durable than those that are in lower weight or BMI ranges (the materials and components in a mattress will soften and break down faster for those in higher weight ranges than they will for someone that is in a lower weight range that doesn't compress the mattress as much). I would be particularly cautious about mattresses that use more than "about an inch or so" of memory foam that is less than about 5 lb density or polyfoam that is less than about 2 lb density ... particularly in the upper layers of the mattress.

Phoenix
28 Aug 2016 11:17
Been laying on mattresses and my favorite "feel" is the Beautyrest Black "Jennings" model with the BlackIce layer. Any recommended alternatives. Dont love the price and I would prefer to support the Vendors here.

As an aside, im 6'2" 250lb side sleeper.
22 Aug 2016 11:52
Hi Substance-p,

The challenge is that my wife is 5'4" 120lbs, sleeps on her side, and has a history of arthritis meaning she needs good pressure relief. She really prefers a soft (i.e. plus/pillow top) mattress. I'm 5'9" and 225. I sleep on my back-in part because sleeping on my side leads to numbness in my shoulders and arms (as an avid weightlifter, I'm fairly broad in the shoulders and struggle to find a good option for side sleeping that allows my shoulders to sink far enough into the mattress).


It's not unusual at all for a couple to have different needs and preferences and there is more information in the first part of post #2 here about some of the different ways that can be used to accommodate a couple that have very different body types or sleeping styles or different needs and preferences in a mattress. Of course the only way to know whether any specific mattress will be suitable for both of you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) will be based on your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) or your own personal experience.when you sleep on it.

Zoning systems of various types can sometimes be useful and worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right "balance" between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to "match" to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to but once again the only way to know whether any specific mattress (zoned or otherwise) will be a good "match" for you in terms of PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience.

We have tried an all latex mattress before we owned the Tempur Cloud, and it was not a favorite of ours. Although it had a cool sleeping experience and nice support, we seem to have a strong preference for memory foam or at least memory foam-based hybrids.


Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the durability guidelines here relative to your weight range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice (see this article ). The best way to know which types of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer in general terms will be based on your own local testing or your own personal experience.

Each mattress category can include hundreds of different mattresses with a very wide range of different designs, different "feels", different characteristics, and different firmness levels. Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting material) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress "as a whole" so each mattress category will generally include some mattresses that have a design that will be a good "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP and others that use the same type of materials and components and are in the same category and may be just as durable but have a different design or firmness level that may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on ... even if it uses the same general type of materials and components.

At this point, we have laid on just about every mattress out there at the major retailers and have found the Cloud Luxe Breeze to be a favorite (but I'm not wanting to spend that degree of money on a bed at this point). We also found Beautyrest black hybrids (in plush or luxury firm with a pillowtop to be comfortable).


The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

Unlike the other major brands ... for the most part Tempurpedic uses good quality materials in their mattresses but there are certainly other local and online options that would be better quality/value choices than Tempurpedic which tend to be significantly overpriced compared to other memory foam mattresses that use similar quality/density materials that may be just as suitable, just as durable, and better "value" choices (see post #2 here ). With Tempurpedic you are paying a significant premium for the name on the label which has little to nothing to do with the quality and durability of the materials or how well you will sleep on a mattress.

Having said that ... your BMI is higher than average (about 33) so there is also more information in post #3 here and the posts it links to that would be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges or have a higher BMI.

While the process of how to choose a mattress would involve the same steps that are listed in the mattress shopping tutorial ... most people in higher weight ranges (or that have a higher BMI) will generally need or prefer firmer mattresses (firmer materials will feel softer because you will sink into them more) and materials and components that are higher quality and more durable than those that are in lower weight ranges (the materials and components in a mattress will soften and break down faster for those in higher weight ranges than they will for someone that is in a lower weight range that doesn't compress the mattress as much). I would be particularly cautious about mattresses that use more than "about an inch or so" of memory foam that is less than about 5 lb density or polyfoam that is less than about 2 lb density ... particularly in the upper layers of the mattress (which would include the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe Breeze).

In looking through the members' list on the forum, I haven't found a lot of memory foam options that are national, but of those I have found I have looked closely at the Pure Crafted TrueEssence comfort firm (their softest). It is listed at 2.25" of 4lb gel memory foam, 5.5" of 2.4lb high density foam, and 3" of 1.8lb base foam.


If you are researching online memory foam mattresses then the mattress shopping tutorial includes this link to a list of some of the better online memory foam options I'm aware of (in the optional online step) and several of them make memory foam mattresses that they describe as being reasonable approximations of the general firmness of many of the Tempurpedic mattresses. Several of the other retailers or manufacturers that are on the list that don't specifically describe their mattresses as being similar to one of the Tempurpedic models would probably also be able to give you more information about which of their mattress would be the closest approximation to a Tempurpedic mattress that you prefer as well.

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

I would suggest looking for mattresses that use materials that are suitable for your weight range to reduce the risk of choosing a mattress that may need to be replaced more quickly than you would hope for or alternatively if you do end up choosing a mattress that uses materials that would be more suitable for someone in a lower weight range then I would reduce your expectations about the durability and useful life of the mattress and how long it may be before you need to replace it accordingly.

I have also been considering the Amerisleep Colonial 2" of 4lb 11ILD on top, 4" of 1.65lb 23ILD in the middle, and 7" of 1.8lb 35ILD as a base. I have read the forum posts on Amerisleep and liked that is similar to the Cloud Luxe but also understand that although it is just inside the specs of "okay" for each layer, it may not be the most robust. Amerisleep recently adding a new bed, the Independence, that is also supposed to have a softer feel but I wondered your opinion on the materials: 2" of 4lb 11ILD top, 3" of 3lb 11ILD middle, and 9" of 1.65lb 40ILD foundation.


These all include lower quality/density and less durable materials than I would suggest in your BMI range.

If there are any other Cloude Luxe similar options out there that would be okay for a heavier sleeper, I'd love to track them down. Novosbed is about the only other one that I can seem to find. I am also someone who is okay with a slightly shorter mattress life for a more comfortable bed.


Off the top of my head ... Novosbed (in their medium firmness level), and Rocky Mountain Mattress, and Tempflow, and Foamorder, and Christeli all make at least one or more mattresses that use 5 lb or higher memory foam but you would need to check their websites or talk to them to find out how they compared to any of the Tempurpedic mattresses.

I should note that I am located in Indianapolis and have checked the forum for recommended options in this area; although, there were some recommendations provided- I didn't see many that have a product similar to what we are looking for (memory foam).


I don't keep a record of the individual mattresses or their specs that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor or have available online (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the local lists is always a good idea before you decide on which retailers or manufacturers you wish to deal with anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the materials in their mattresses, and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in that are also in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in considering or visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.

In its simplest form choosing the "best possible" mattress for any particular person (or couple) really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then ...

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP ... and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or "fine tune" the mattress and any costs involved if you can't test a mattress in person or aren't confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

3. Comparing your finalists for "value" based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
22 Aug 2016 10:21
I've been reading through the forum and I think I have covered all of the tutorials and overviews-very helpful

My wife and I are looking for a replacement for our 7 year old Tempurpedic Cloud (it's maintaining body impressions and sleeping hot). We have tried two other replacements to no avail: Wink beds which I liked fairly well but was too hard for her and the Alexander Hybrid which showed up damaged in transit and we tried it for a little while but it was not a good of a fit for us.

The challenge is that my wife is 5'4" 120lbs, sleeps on her side, and has a history of arthritis meaning she needs good pressure relief. She really prefers a soft (i.e. plus/pillow top) mattress. I'm 5'9" and 225. I sleep on my back-in part because sleeping on my side leads to numbness in my shoulders and arms (as an avid weightlifter, I'm fairly broad in the shoulders and struggle to find a good option for side sleeping that allows my shoulders to sink far enough into the mattress).

We have tried an all latex mattress before we owned the Tempur Cloud, and it was not a favorite of ours. Although it had a cool sleeping experience and nice support, we seem to have a strong preference for memory foam or at least memory foam-based hybrids.

At this point, we have laid on just about every mattress out there at the major retailers and have found the Cloud Luxe Breeze to be a favorite (but I'm not wanting to spend that degree of money on a bed at this point). We also found Beautyrest black hybrids (in plush or luxury firm with a pillowtop to be comfortable).

In looking through the members' list on the forum, I haven't found a lot of memory foam options that are national, but of those I have found I have looked closely at the Pure Crafted TrueEssence comfort firm (their softest). It is listed at 2.25" of 4lb gel memory foam, 5.5" of 2.4lb high density foam, and 3" of 1.8lb base foam.

I have also been considering the Amerisleep Colonial 2" of 4lb 11ILD on top, 4" of 1.65lb 23ILD in the middle, and 7" of 1.8lb 35ILD as a base. I have read the forum posts on Amerisleep and liked that is similar to the Cloud Luxe but also understand that although it is just inside the specs of "okay" for each layer, it may not be the most robust. Amerisleep recently adding a new bed, the Independence, that is also supposed to have a softer feel but I wondered your opinion on the materials: 2" of 4lb 11ILD top, 3" of 3lb 11ILD middle, and 9" of 1.65lb 40ILD foundation.

My only concerns RE the TruEssence is that it is hard to find user feedback (I'm sure it's high quality, I'm just not sure about a comparable feeling bed to test out ahead of time), and I am not sure if it will be soft enough for my wife. My concern with the Amerisleep Colonial is that the density of the foams falls just inside the okay range-prompting my question about the Independence, with its different core foam, as a potential option.

If there are any other Cloude Luxe similar options out there that would be okay for a heavier sleeper, I'd love to track them down. Novosbed is about the only other one that I can seem to find. I am also someone who is okay with a slightly shorter mattress life for a more comfortable bed.

I should note that I am located in Indianapolis and have checked the forum for recommended options in this area; although, there were some recommendations provided- I didn't see many that have a product similar to what we are looking for (memory foam).
24 Jul 2016 12:34
Hi fkudlack,

thank you phoenix for your response, my zip is 19061. do you know anything about the build of the Beauty rest World Class..... like is it pocket coils, or coil on coil, poly foam topper?


The old Beautyrest World Class mattresses were a line of mattresses that included many different models that used a pocket coil innerspring with various combination of foam layers that could include polyfoam, memory foam, or latex on top of the innerspring although lower quality/density polyfoam or memory foam would be most common in most of their models. The World Class Exceptional used a microcoil as one of the comfort layers so it was a "coil on coil" mattress. For the most part they have never provided any meaningful information about the quality/density and durability of most of their foam layers.

The Beautyrest World Class line was one step above the Classic line and the Exceptionale was a step above that. The Beautyrest Black was the top end of their lineup but none of the Beautyrest mattresses (including the top end of their line) were good quality/value mattresses and all of them used lower quality and less durable materials than I would consider.

my zip is 19061


Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here ... the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the Philadelphia/Wilmington/Trenton areas are listed in post #4 here .

Phoenix
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